Binary Triggers

Status
Not open for further replies.
I believe it was Military Arms Channel that did a review, showing him actually out-running the trigger multiple times (pulling the trigger so fast that the hammer fell before the bolt finished locking), thus jamming the rifle. For me, it is another gimmicky toy, like a bump-fire stock. Possible fun at the range the first time, but the novelty would wear off, and that same money could have been put toward ammo or a Geissele trigger.
 
I can think of many better ways to spend $430.

Full auto (or simulated) is fun briefly, but I quickly tire of turning ammo into noise. Two or three mags every few months and I'm good.
 
I have two. I have a Gen 2 and a Gen 3 (long story but no, I didn't pay anywhere close to full price for them). The Gen 2 were a "trigger pack" and kind of a pain in the butt to get to the correct height. It could require shims and some fiddling to get it right. Gen 3 is awesome!

badkarmamib said:
I believe it was Military Arms Channel that did a review, showing him actually out-running the trigger multiple times (pulling the trigger so fast that the hammer fell before the bolt finished locking), thus jamming the rifle.
Click to expand...
That was the Gen 2. I have not had that happen at all with the Gen 3.

badkarmamib said:
For me, it is another gimmicky toy, like a bump-fire stock.
Click to expand...
It is way better than a bump-fire stock in my opinion. A bump-fire requires a technique, a binary trigger does not.

I'm an NFA guy as it is. I have registered auto's, so this was just a cheaper way to have a little fun. I have to say that the Gen 3 is the closest thing to burst fire that you will get without a tax stamp. In my opinion it is worth every penny but like I said, auto's are something that I collect and enjoy, not everyone's cup of tea.

Do you have any specific questions about it OP?

You might want to check out Echo's binary trigger as well. They were in production for a very long time but I have recently seen them popping up on Gun Broker. They are the same price point as Franklin Armory's but they guarantee you can't over run the bolt. The echo trigger makes me a little nervous because of the sear. The ATF has changed their mind after they approved something in the past (I'm looking at you Lightning Links) and I'd be willing to bet they will do it again.
 
Was kind of curious about long term reliability and more importantly whether this is one of those things that the ATF may magically change their position on.
 
badkarmamib said:
I believe it was Military Arms Channel that did a review, showing him actually out-running the trigger multiple times (pulling the trigger so fast that the hammer fell before the bolt finished locking), thus jamming the rifle. For me, it is another gimmicky toy, like a bump-fire stock. Possible fun at the range the first time, but the novelty would wear off, and that same money could have been put toward ammo or a Geissele trigger.
Click to expand...
I only we could add a safety sear to the AR15 :evil:

Mike
 
Winkman822 said:
Was kind of curious about long term reliability and more importantly whether this is one of those things that the ATF may magically change their position on.
Click to expand...

So I have put around three thousand rounds through the Gen 3 without any problems. I love it and highly recommend it. It is very easy to install as well. It has been in one of my SBR's since I got it and I haven't switched it to another gun. My buddy has one as well and it is in a different brand receiver than mine and he has had no problems at all.

Then Gen 2 worked in one of my AR's no problem but I switched it to an SBR and it was kind of a pain in the butt. It worked fine in binary and fine in safe but wouldn't work in semi. I kept raising the trigger pack by shimming it and it didn't change the results. I called Franklin Armory and they said I had to file it down 2 thousandths of an inch. Honestly I just haven't gotten to it yet. It is sitting on my reloading bench waiting for me to get motivated. Worst case I can put it in another AR and I am sure it will be fine. Actually, talking about it might be the motivation I need. I will probably tackle it this weekend.

Bottom line, besides myself I know two other people with the Gen 3. All of us love it and have had no problems.

Check out the Echo binary trigger. My bet is if the ATF is going to do an about-face, it will be with theirs.
https://fostechoutdoors.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=15
 
Fun noise tho, if i had money to spare and they were 1/2-2/3s the price id want one. Extra cost cause id need a new upper as im not into dumping .458, or 6.5 that fast.
 
Binary triggers are an excellent, efficient way of turning money into noise.
Click to expand...

You say that as if it were a bad thing :)

With .22lr or 9mm reloads, it is cost competitive with setting off fireworks (ignoring the price of the device).
I've seen "bump fire" stocks at gun shows for ~$100, but its difficult to get a bump fire stock to run with .22lr.

We have a lot of fun with them shooting 9mm -- hosing down an "army" of water filled milk jugs and 2-liter bottles at ~15 yards from the the hip leaves everyone grinning from ear to ear afterwards.
 
The origins of the trigger go back to shotgunners who used them in competition. They could pull the trigger on the first clay, then release on the second clay. Each motion of the trigger was one -1- discharge of the firearm. That meant the BATF would approve them, and did.

Now that the technology has moved to the AR it seems the shooting community thinks of them as "less than moral." Really. They were fine on a shotgun range in the hands of experts looking for an edge, and I expect them to show up in 3Gun - along with 60 round mags (already in competition) sights mounted on the side of the receiver, bolt mounted operating handles, light low recoil BCG's ad infinitum. But for some reason the binary trigger gets treated like a red headed step child. "Don't shoot your eye out five times" kind of disdain.

If you think people are going to spray and pray with them, got to ask, is that something new? No, not so much. Been going on with .22's for a loooonng time. If the shooter sees his ammo costs differently than someone else, oh well. Steel cased at $7 a 20 retail tend to support it, plenty of us like ammo at 35c a round. Is it the triggers fault or the ammo? Why does a moral judgment need to be made when the point is enjoying our firearms the way we choose?
 
You can get a mini 14 and a staple, for not a whole lot more than that trigger alone and do the same thing.
 
Tirod said:
Why does a moral judgment need to be made when the point is enjoying our firearms the way we choose?
Click to expand...

It's not a moral judgement; it's an economical/practical one. These things are not being billed as giving competitive shooters "an edge" in their games, but as a sort of alternative to bump fire stocks, and with an even higher price tag. I don't begrudge anyone who wants to spend ridiculous money on a gimmick, but it's not for me.

There is, of course, a bit of a safety issue with them, in that our subconscious and muscle memory is not geared toward a discharge on release of the trigger. Some rounds are going to be let go unintentionally with this and similar triggers, hopefully while the weapon is still pointed down range from the previous shot.
 
MachIVshooter said:
There is, of course, a bit of a safety issue with them, in that our subconscious and muscle memory is not geared toward a discharge on release of the trigger. Some rounds are going to be let go unintentionally with this and similar triggers, hopefully while the weapon is still pointed down range from the previous shot.
Click to expand...

Ive seen people turn around still holding down the trigger, especially on semis. Poor gun handling and safety yes, but it still happens. While ive also never seen a gun get pointed at anyone like that im also sure that happens too.

I think they are neat devices, and would like one but can't justify it.....tho if i see a cheap used one ill problem grab it. Never wanted to paper clip my mini LOL

So hopefully everyone stays safe, luck saves the buddies of the fool who screws up, and they dont catch a bad wrap for someones carelessness.
 
Last edited:
Is there a way defeat the mechanism if you have the trigger depressed and don't want that round to fire on release? Does moving the selector to safe do it?
 
Nature Boy said:
Is there a way defeat the mechanism if you have the trigger depressed and don't want that round to fire on release? Does moving the selector to safe do it?
Click to expand...
The review I saw said that yes, if you flip the selector to "semi" while the trigger is depressed, no round would fire when you release.
 
There is less chance of tragedy with a binary trigger than a 3 round burst or full auto trigger. I don't hear people crying doom and gloom about full auto triggers
 
MistWolf said:
There is less chance of tragedy with a binary trigger than a 3 round burst or full auto trigger. I don't hear people crying doom and gloom about full auto triggers
Click to expand...

How do you figure? If one can't control a weapon with a high ROF, then simulated or the real deal is going to be problematic. But burst or FA functions don't loose a round on release of the trigger, where some of us reasonably deduce that unintentional discharges will occur..
 
Inexperienced shooters often panic when surprised by full auto or burst fire and are likely to keep holding the trigger back as they try to hang on to the weapon rapidly rising under recoil. A burst trigger will send out three uncontrolled shots and a full auto won't stop until the mag is empty. A binary trigger will only fire one, if holding the trigger back, two at the most, if the shooter then releases the trigger. Not a problem for an experienced shooter, but neither will be a fire on release trigger.

Double taps and controlled pairs are decided by the shooter before firing the first shot. When selecting binary mode, it's the same thing. The shooter has decided ahead of time they will be shooting twice. They don't start a double tap, then change their mind.

If shooting a drill with multiple targets, the shooter can press to shoot the first target, then release as the sights align with the second and so on. If there's a brain fart and an extra shot is expended, there is no more harm than if the shooter fires an extra shot in normal mode. It happen, you know.

Worrying about muscle memory causing a dangerous situation when shooting in binary mode is like worrying about it being dangerous switching from a single shot rifle to a self loading rifle.

Folks need to either stop making such a fuss about binary triggers, or quit complaining when Fudds tell them "You ain't need one o' them thar automatics or a magazine what holds more'n five boolits anyways"
 
Last edited:
Is there a way defeat the mechanism if you have the trigger depressed and don't want that round to fire on release?
Click to expand...

Drop the mag and rack the bolt should do it.
 
jmorris said:
Drop the mag and rack the bolt should do it.
Click to expand...

A bit unergonomic since the trigger finger is typically used to drop the mag. Just pull the charging handle, hold it back and release the trigger should do it. Then the mag can be dropped to clear the rifle.
 
The binary triggers are designed to not fire on release and reset when the safety is re-engaged
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
  • Locked
Does anyone have experience with binary triggers? Does this make sense?
Replies
9
Views
1K
MistWolf
M
CoalCrackerAl
PSA has 10/22 binary triggers for 199.00 .
Replies
6
Views
327
jmorris
jmorris
Budshad
  • Locked
DelTon or DTI AR15s
Replies
10
Views
505
FL-NC
FL-NC
A
  • Locked
Fostech AR Trigger
Replies
3
Views
1K
TIMC
T
M
  • Locked
Franklin Armory Does It Again!
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
131
Views
7K
Browning
Browning
Back
Top