oneslowgun
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I got into this debate 20yrs. ago, and took the advice of a retireing LEO. 12GA. 2 3/4 #2 LEAD shot. Both of my HD shotties have these in the tube, and slugs/OO in the SideSaddle.
Birdshot Lethality (story)
- Thread starter 357wheelgunner
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357wheelgunner
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Wow, lots of interesting responses, thanks guys! Like I said, I only remember the basics of the story, and thought it would make for some intersting conversation.
"At that distance, bird and buck shot both perform more like a slug than as shot. Why? Because the shot will still be together in the shot cup when entering the skin."
This is complete BS. A slug is cast into one solid piece, a shot cup is a plastic cup filled with many many small pellets. I have in front of me 4 ziplock bags. In one is a load of 7/8 oz #8 birdshot, one is a load of 1-1/4 oz #4 rabbit load, the third bag has 12 00 buck pellets, and the last bag has a 1 oz 12 gauge slug. Have you actually cut open a shotshell and looked at birdshot Double Naught? There is no way that it would ever "act like a slug", unless you are talking about some kind of frangible magsafe slug. Put down the "Tactical Ninja Combat Customized Supergun" magazine and find a Physics book. While the load of #8s may weigh an ounce or so together, being individual pellets they will NOT penetrate like a single 1 oz projectile would, not even close. Like many others said, birdshot causes nasty but shallow wounds.
If I am shooting to stop someone, I'll use 00 buck or slugs. At HD ranges it is unlikely I'll miss (I practice a lot), and if you actually hit the BG you dont have to worry too much about shot going through walls. Besides anything that wont go through drywall probably wont do much to a fat strong badguy wearing a leather coat...
"At that distance, bird and buck shot both perform more like a slug than as shot. Why? Because the shot will still be together in the shot cup when entering the skin."
This is complete BS. A slug is cast into one solid piece, a shot cup is a plastic cup filled with many many small pellets. I have in front of me 4 ziplock bags. In one is a load of 7/8 oz #8 birdshot, one is a load of 1-1/4 oz #4 rabbit load, the third bag has 12 00 buck pellets, and the last bag has a 1 oz 12 gauge slug. Have you actually cut open a shotshell and looked at birdshot Double Naught? There is no way that it would ever "act like a slug", unless you are talking about some kind of frangible magsafe slug. Put down the "Tactical Ninja Combat Customized Supergun" magazine and find a Physics book. While the load of #8s may weigh an ounce or so together, being individual pellets they will NOT penetrate like a single 1 oz projectile would, not even close. Like many others said, birdshot causes nasty but shallow wounds.
If I am shooting to stop someone, I'll use 00 buck or slugs. At HD ranges it is unlikely I'll miss (I practice a lot), and if you actually hit the BG you dont have to worry too much about shot going through walls. Besides anything that wont go through drywall probably wont do much to a fat strong badguy wearing a leather coat...
Never said it was. Personally, I want:
A) maximum possibility of rapid / instant incpacitation
B) Adequate, but not excessive penetration
For me, that's #4 buck. Penetration falls in the same range that the FBI protocol requires of pistol ammunition (12-16 inches), but does not have the excessive penetration that 00 buck and slugs have (22 and 30 inches respectively. Great if you have to shoot a guy behind a sumo
) Twenty-seven pellets also gives a pretty good number of wound tracks, for bleeding, and more chances to hit the CNS than 00 buck's 8 or 9 pellets.CNS disruption or blood pressure drop sufficient to cause unconciousness are the only physiological means of incapacitation. Fear, pain, the psychological shock of being shot, etc can't be counted on. CNS disruption will cause incapacitation pretty much instantly. Blood loss could take a little longer, and a few seconds is long enough to get beaten to death / shot.
Don't get me wrong. I completely agree that birdshot can be very lethal, particularly up close. Would I want to get shot with it? No. Would I use it for self defense if that's all I had? Yes. Would I still use it if I had my choice of ammo? No.
That's all I'm saying. Yeah, it would have been a lot faster to just say "I agree," but I feel wordy today.
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