Black Powder For Self Defense?

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I was looking at one the other day but could not figure out where you stick the clip in. :)

Figure NY pols won't be happy till they have the totally disarmed populace. I am thinking these days that BP use in crime is somewhere around the same level as that of .50BMG.
 
If you have to use BP for defense of the home, then replicate what was done when this was the only option.
1- Caplock Double barreled 12 or 10 gage @ 14 inches or so in bbl length, stuffed full of 00 buck shot.
2- Multiple revolvers available as reloading takes to long (Remember The Outlaw Josey Wales?)
3- Large Bowie type fighting knife
One hell of a mean fighting spirit and disposition.
 
Damien,

Drop me an email. I have a good collection of articles that explain the care and feeding of cap-n-ball revolvers that I can share.
All of the material is well written, and most importantly, safe.
 
it will bring the hurt to any bg's world now just as well as it did back then. plus, if you empty it, just throw it at their face! an 1858 remington with 8 inch barrel to the face at throwing speeds will knock them down to say the least.
 
I agree with AntiqueCollector and others on the stopping power of a back powder handgun. The splatter power of a soft round lead ball is way out of proportion to its energy level. The entire bullet is a soft point. Assuming the op is not referring to black powder cartridges, the main downside to black powder revolvers is that they tend to absorb moisture and are therefore less reliable than modern firearms.
 
If cap 'n ball is all you have then it is better than nothing.

A person relying on it really needs to go out and shoot, just as anyone with any firearm should do, and find out how it handles, it's accuracy, and how prone it is to failure.

Also the person needs to have an idea of what to do next if:

The cap fails to work

There is a hangfire

A cap falls off and jams up the gun or something else causes the gun to fail

It turns out more than 5-6 rounds are going to be needed

There is so much smoke visibilty is reduced/eliminated AND the fight is still going or there are still opponents in the building

Wounded in the main hand can the gun be worked with the off hand



So I'm with the poster above that said have multiple guns ready to go. If there is a problem with one; ditch it and grab another. Same for reloads, there will be no time to fully charge even one chamber let alone an entire cylinder so the best option is drop gun A and go to gun B.
 
That would definitely not be a good idea.
While it is doubtful a C&B gun with a >12 inch barrel is prohibitted, and while it is questionable if a C&B pistol with a less than 12 inch barrel is legal to possess without being registered, it would be pointless because possession of the powder, ball and cap is illegal in DC unless one holds a valid firearms registration certificate for the exact caliber of the firearm that is registered.
In DC ossession of ammunition is illegal w/o a f. certificate and DC defines ammunition so as to include all components.
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I believe DC law uses the same definitions as federal law on antiques and antiques are not "firearms" there...
 
4v50 Gary wrote in post number 20 :
How effective are blackpowder weapons? Well, no one in the American Civil War was killed with a nitro-cellulose propelled bullet. As to choice, I like the Ruger Old Army but the LeMat has more shots and a 20 gauge smoothbore barrel slung underneath. However, I'd go with the same criteria as I would a modern firearm. Go reliable and go as cheap (price) as possible. Any gun that is used in a shooting will be confiscated and held until the shooter is cleared by the local law enforcement agency and the district attorney of criminal homicide. That means your gun will be thrown on a shelf or in a barrel until it is retrieved for testing. I wouldn't expect the cops to clean your gun either so it'll rust away until you get it back. So, remember, reliable first, cheap second.
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Excellent Post!
Gary has researched history and written texts; including legislations, firearms and Stategy and Tactics

People have been "restricted" all through history, and continue to be "restricted" in regard to firearms and related tools of defense.
Mindset, training, improvisation and adaptation allows peoples to overcome restrictions.

Often times how one carries themselves and the perceptions they give off, are enough to deter some evils.
If one tool is a black powder long gun in a restrictive environment - then that certainly is another tool in the toolbox.
 
I'm kind of curious, does anyone know how to make precussion caps from scratch?

I've always wondered how hard they are to make as I've never gotten into BP.

I understand that people just buy thousands of them, but say you had to for whatever reason.

How would you do it?
 
Mixing up the chemicals is very dangerous. I wouldn't do it. Get a flintlock in case caps become difficult to get.
 
I read a promo for some book on Paladin Press that said that you could do it using strike anywhere matches which is why I was asking. Don't worry, I like my thumbs and fingers where they are and besides I don't have any BP guns anyway and I don't think that I'll be getting any anytime soon, I was just curious if anyone knew.
 
I had to go look at them again today.

You guys got the wheels turning in me. Currently I am only allowed my service weapons and can't buy any real guns of my own at my current location. I had to leave my guns at home (or store in the unit arms room, which wasn't really an option).

While I almost never leave post I feel strange walking around without a gun when I do leave post, even here in Oz where crime is very low. I certainly can't take my service weapons off post either.

So what would be a good setup for a vehicle rifle/pistol for someone who has never owned BP previously and only shot one a couple of times? I don't even shoot wheel guns much and only own one single action wheel gun.
 
I'm kind of curious, does anyone know how to make precussion caps from scratch?
Click to expand...

You can use plastic toy caps (the ones that are packaged 8 or 9 in a circle); just cut them apart into individual caps and press them on the nipples. They work great, but they are corrosive (since BP and Pyrodex are already corrosive, the corrosive caps should be no big deal)
 
Concerning the Lemat I was once blasted for to daring to ask: If a Lemat is all you have what do fire first; the shotgun or the revolver rounds. I'm still wondering.

I'm sure the men who used them during the CW would have had an opinion.
 
I believe DC law uses the same definitions as federal law on antiques and antiques are not "firearms" there...
Click to expand...
No, you have to look at all sections and subsections because for each the definition may be slightly different as far as application to that particular section or subsection.

Division IV. Criminal Law and Procedure and
Prisoners
Title 22. Criminal Offenses and Penalties
Subtitle VI. Regulation and Possession of
Weapons
Chapter 45. Weapons and Possession of
Weapons
22-4501. Definitions.
(a) "Pistol," as used in this chapter, means
any firearm with a barrel less than 12 inches in length.
Click to expand...
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/statelaws/26thedition/washingtondc.pdf
Note, in that chapter as I read it there is no exception for antiques.


Just like with any state, you have to read their statutes carefully and look at all sections, titles or articles. For instance, what may seem perfectly legal in one, two, or three sections of applicable codes and titels, it may be illegal under some esoteric hunting or transportation section law.
 
To those that mention the bad aspect of moisture of C&B revolvers, the reliability of C&B revolvers' caps and the smoke in enclosed places, I just heve to repeat that it is possible to buy a smokelss powder C&B revolver using very relieable shotgun primers and all issues can be addressed.
 
NC: Do you have a recommendation?

I recall that someone was doing 30cal 3-shot conversions of the NAA Companion mini using pistol primers which sounded like a lot of fun. What other options are kicking around?
 
Note, in that chapter as I read it there is no exception for antiques.


Just like with any state, you have to read their statutes carefully and look at all sections, titles or articles. For instance, what may seem perfectly legal in one, two, or three sections of applicable codes and titels, it may be illegal under some esoteric hunting or transportation section law.
Click to expand...

"Any firearm with a barrel less than..."

But the definition of firearm is:

"9) “Firearm” means any weapon which will, or is designed or redesigned, made or remade, readily converted or restored, and intended to, expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such device; or any firearm muffler or silencer; provided, that such term shall not include:

(A) Antique firearms; or

(B) Destructive devices;

(C) Any device used exclusively for line throwing, signaling, or safety, and required or recommended by the Coast Guard or Interstate Commerce Commission; or

(D) Any device used exclusively for firing explosive rivets, stud cartridges, or similar industrial ammunition and incapable for use as a weapon."

http://dcguncase.com/blog/dc-gun-laws


So antiques are entirely excluded from the definition of "firearm" therefore they don't fit the definition of a "pistol" since they are not firearms. Well, that's how I read it anyways.
 
Uberti_1858a.jpg


Uberti_1858b.jpg


454ball2.jpg


Uberti 1858 with a rifled barrel. Used extensively in Europe where gunpowder firearms are generally illegal to own/use for self protection - accurate and lethal. Please pass the Pepto Bismol...
 
Thank you all for your responses. I have learned a lot here. I did not know about the conversion cylinders that were mentioned in the responses. Something like that is a definite end-around the laws in NYC as all a NYC resident has to do is go to Westchester County (or Connecticut if NYS changes its BP laws) to to buy a BP gun and then a .45 LC or .45 ACP cylinder. What this says to me is that NYC handgun, laws with respect to purchase, are completely unenforcable. NYC relies on the fact that they can control legal handgun sales in NYC and that a NYC resident can't buy a handgun out of the city due to NYS law and also can't buy a handgun out of the state due to federal laws. However, since BP guns and cartridge converters are not regulated, this is simply not true. Any NYC resident can purchase a gun, legally at least initially, this way, and bring it back to the city. There is nothing NYC or NYS can do about it. I wonder why this hasn't been discussed before? Obviously this is all illegal, but what is to stop someone who needs a gun but doesn't want to deal with the criminal element in obtaining it?

http://www.riverjunction.com/kirst/konverteracc.html
 
I wonder why this hasn't been discussed before?
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BP guns are simply not used in crimes (anymore). That is why it is not an issue. What gangsta wants to get caught loading black powder?

Obviously this is all illegal, but what is to stop someone who needs a gun but doesn't want to deal with the criminal element in obtaining it?
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That is an awfully weird question... If you need a gun and you don't want to break the law then you won't do it. There is no process in place to stop a person from buying a gun if they are willing to break the law. Unless you want to pass another law making it "super double illegal". But it still won't stop anyone willing to break the law...
 
Apologies if this has been asked before, but can BP be loaded in modern handloaded shotshells and used in single shot or pump action HD guns? I can see where they might not cycle in a semiauto, but I'm guessing they would work in all other types. It would be messy, but doable. Or am I missing something?
 
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