Black powder substitutes ... yet again ?

[wmgeorge]

FYI when I was looking for "real" black two months ago, No Body had it, not Bass Pro, not gun shops. If you have not tried to purchase in the last 6 months your in for a Big surprise. There has been a change on who can sell, where it can be stored and how much they can have on hand. Most dealers who used to stock, said as of the new changes they no longer sell. I got it mail order from Graf and Sons.

Jack Ryan BTW the Link you posted for Bass Pro Shops, unavailable online or in the Store so ***?

 

[woodnbow]

In some types of muzzle loaders, black powder is not optimum.
I don't like disputing it very much but there are also velocity considerations for some folks, and the amount of fouling residue for others, especially in smaller calibers.
There isn't any single powder that's far and away the best for all applications as far as I'm concerned.
They all have their advantages and disadvantages.
Try, clean or chronograph the different types and see which powder that you like the best.
Not very many inline shooters use black powder either.
And I don't see much difference between a #11 inline and a revolver ignition design, so unless someone is participating in a revolver competition and prefers BP or is required to use it then it's whatever the shooter prefers.
In some guns or for use by children safety might also be a consideration.
Perhaps with the subs there's more impact safety, or less chance for a cook off or chain fire, I can't say for sure but that could be another consideration.
When my kid was young, I would never let him load black powder by himself like I woud let him load with Pyrodex.
Niether the kid nor myself had any less fun by shooting sub powders.
Can sub. powdera win local club competitions?
Sure they can.
Can you hunt and kill game with them?
Sure you can.
To each their own.

This ^^^.

Personally, I really like Swiss BP... there, I said it!

However, if you shoot a muzzleloading firearm, it’s none of my business (or anyone else’s) what you use in it, BP or substitute. You’re no less “real” than anyone else. I like the older designs and haven’t had an inline in many years, unless you count revolvers... but if you show up with the latest in muzzleloading technology I’m certainly not going to snub you, I may even ask questions about it. I’m a friendly guy basically. No need to get wrapped around the axle over the small stuff...

 

[dave951]

In our competition, the rules state that NOTHING besides the real deal holy black is to be used. I've experimented with some subs but in the guns I shoot, real BP is where it's at and I use Swiss exclusively now. Old E is pretty darn good, but you can cut the charge levels a tad with Swiss and still get the same performance as Old E so the extra cost is almost a wash.

Best source for real BP is-
https://www.blackpowderva.com/
Not only is he one of the largest suppliers of BP in the country, he also actively supports bp shoots.

 

[dave951]

One powder might work better in one gun for hunting while another may work better in the same gun for target shooting or plinking, depending on how many shots are fired and how often a person swabs etc...
I've found there to be a difference in performance between using 2F and 3F or Pyrodex P, and also with how much patch lube such as Bore Butter is applied to the patches.

In North South Skirmish Association competition, you don't swab or wipe between shots with minies or smoothbore. If you do, you're toast. The load I have for my Parker Hale doesn't require swabbing or wiping between shots and is a sub 2moa load for 10+ shots straight. The key is to size the bullet correctly and the lube used must be in balance to the level of fouling produced by the powder charge. The other issue I see people getting wrapped around the axles on is charge levels. With a minie, you DO NOT need humongous charge levels. In fact, they are detrimental to accuracy. Most accurate charge level in most minie guns is about 60% of service charge. It's great for accuracy and still has plenty of power to put bambi in the freezer.

Back the the sub thing, if you're using a sub in a minie design gun, the bullet still has the same power constraints as when using black powder. Build extra pressure, blow out the skirt and the bullet goes somewhere other than where you're aiming.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Amen Dave651, been shooting muzzleloaders for over 45 years now and it still amazes me how some folks want to burn a large charge of powder. My personal favorite loads are usually 5 to 10 grains over caliber size with a round ball. The powder doesn't matter all that much in my experience. I really don't care about being a purist, I have walked off shoots because of some purist Nazi getting silly about what socks you were wearing. If it makes the gun go boom and accuracy is good I'm happy.

 

[ThomasT]

If you shoot something other than real BP then you are not a black powder shooter. I get that. And its no big deal. And if you pour loose powder down the bore and then load the gun from the muzzle you are still a Muzzleloader shooter. Good enough!

I have a couple of sub powders on hand but prefer real BP for my shooting. But I am impressed by the Alliant MZ I bought a while back. I hate to hear its gone. I should have bought more.

But I have a fair amount of Goex on hand. I got a couple of buddies to go in with me and buy 25 pounds from Powder Inc. My Buds were supposed to get 6 pounds with one guy and the second guy wanted 5 pounds. And then when the powder got here and it was time to pay me they both crawfished. One paid for 2 pounds and the second decided his life time supply could be handled by one pound. So I got stuck with 22 pounds of powder and I already had powder left from Grafs (Elephant) I had bought years before. Now in hindsight I am glad they screwed me over. I have plenty. And if they need powder in the future I guess they will be making their own orders. Mine is not for sale.

But if you can get 3-4 people to go in on it then order 25 pounds. Its the best way to go. But get the money from everyone up front first.