Blackpowder newbie questions

[mattw]

Ok I decided last night that I want to get a blackpowder single action revolver. I've got a few questions:

1.) What are the laws reguarding the sale of blackpowder pistols? Can I order one throught the mail? How old do I have to be? (probably 21 but I hope 18 is good enough) Are there different laws for blackpowder cap and ball and blackpowder cartridge?

2.) Does anyone make blackpowder cartridge pistols for around $250 or less? Does any company make good black powder cartrige ammo?

3.) What is a decent cap 'n ball revolver for around $200?

 

[Vulpes]

BP revolvers are not considered firearms so can be purchased without an license of any kind, believe you just have to be 18 years old.For the best blackpowder I believe Goex its the best.
I myself have an replica of an COLT NAVY 1851 made by Pietta and it cost me 200 € (you americans are a lucky bastards to have them at low prices,even if its made in europe) but if you're in the USA you can get a decent Pietta or even Uberti (the best manufacturer from what I've gathered from my readings) at those prices you've mencioned. check the net, for instance the following sites:

http://fcsutler.com/fccwrevolvers.asp
http://www.possibleshop.com/uberti.htm
http://www.possibleshop.com/pietta.htm

thats just a few examples from shops you can find in the net. Then you just have to decide if you like Colt or Remington better. Myself I am an Colt fan- just find my navy and the Dragoons beautifull!http://www.thehighroad.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1941290#
Smilie

Vulpes

"E ao imenso e possível oceano
Ensinam estas Quinas, que aqui vês,
Que o mar com fim será grego ou romano:
O mar sem fim é português.

 

[mattw]

well since they aren't considered firearms i sure would like to find a one that uses metalic cartridges instead of cap and ball.

 

[Father Knows Best]

1.) What are the laws reguarding the sale of blackpowder pistols? Can I order one throught the mail? How old do I have to be? (probably 21 but I hope 18 is good enough)

It varies by state. Muzzle loaders, including cap-and-ball revolvers, are generally exempt from the federal laws requiring sales through an FFL holder, etc., so you can order cap-and-ball pistols and have them shipped directly to you in most places. Some states, however, have state laws prohibing such sales.

Are there different laws for blackpowder cap and ball and blackpowder cartridge?

Yes. The federal laws exempt guns that do not fire fixed ammunition, e.g., muzzle loaders and cap-and-ball revolvers. If it fires a commercially available fixed cartridge, it is regulated. It doesn't matter whether there is smokeless or black powder in that cartridge. For example, all of the replica single action "cowboy era" revolvers currently on the market (such as the Colt Single Action Army and clones, Smith and Wesson Schofield, etc.) are regulated just like modern firearms. You can only purchase them across state lines from a licensed dealer in your own state and only if you are permitted by law to purchase a firearm.

2.) Does anyone make blackpowder cartridge pistols for around $250 or less?

I'm not sure what you mean by "blackpowder cartridge pistols." Any pistol that can shoot smokeless cartridges can also shoot blackpowder cartridges. If you are referring to cartridge firearms originally sold in the black powder era, such as the Colt Single Action Army, the answer is no -- you can't buy a new one for under $250. Entry price is around $350 for the least expensive Italian imports, with better quality guns selling for anywhere from $450 to $1,000 or more, depending on manufacturer, model and finish.[/quote]

Does any company make good black powder cartrige ammo?

Yes. Goex makes excellent black powder cartridge ammo at reasonable prices (it's available from Powder, Inc., and some other Goex distributors). Other companies like Ten-X, Ammo Direct and others offer cartridges loaded with modern black powder substitutes.

3.) What is a decent cap 'n ball revolver for around $200?

$200 is around the entry price for a decent cap 'n ball revolver. For about that price, you can get an Italian made steel-framed (blued) replica of the 1851, 1860 or 1861 Colts, or the Remington "1858" (New Model Army). Cabela's and Dixie Gun Works have good selections available in their catalogs and via their websites.

 

[unspellable]

laws

They are not firearms as far as federal regulations are concerned.

However, there are state and local laws to think about and they vary from one place to another. For example, here in Iowa a front loading handgun qualifies as a handgun in every respect and is subject to all laws regarding handguns.

In Michigan it is a handgun if you intend to shoot it.

Bottom line, check up on the local laws before you do anything.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

They are classified Federally as "Antique Firearms". You can not carry or conseal an "Antique Firearm" (which means loaded with powder, ball, and capped). A Cap&Ball Revlover is not concidered loaded until it is capped. They don't need to be registered in most States and are regulated also by local laws.

 

[mattw]

Thanks for the insight guys.

I'm not sure what you mean by "blackpowder cartridge pistols." Any pistol that can shoot smokeless cartridges can also shoot blackpowder cartridges.

Once I got home and started to think some more I came to that conclusion also, I guess I just had a brain fart or something.


What would you consider some essential custom work for cap 'n ball revolvers? Some people think that hey need a certain extractor for their 1911s or they need to take their weapon to the gunsmith so that he can do this or that before they feel it is reliable and ready to be used. Is there anything you guys have done to your cap 'n ball revolvers before you shoot them?

 

[Father Knows Best]

Is there anything you guys have done to your cap 'n ball revolvers before you shoot them?

It depends on the gun. Most of the new cap-and-ball revolvers out there are made in Italy, and the manufacturers don't seem to do much fitting and polishing. The internals can be pretty rough, creating high drag on the parts. They overcome it by fitting heavy springs.

Most will function well out of the box. If they don't, you may need to do some light stoning of the moving parts. If the timing is off, you'll need a gunsmith to fix it. Once the internals have been polished up a bit, a set of lighter springs will go a long way toward making the gun more pleasant to shoot.

About the only thing I recommend automatically for almost all new cap-and-ball guns is a set of high quality aftermarket nipples, especially if you're having trouble getting the stock ones to work well with available caps.

 

[unspellable]

blackpowder cartridge arms

A blackpowder cartridge arm is one that was originally designed and chambered for a blackpowder cartridge. Of course, many of those blackpowder cartridges are today loaded with smokeless. A firearm made to day may well be intended for smokeless loads. Aside from considerations of pressure, there may be a difference in the rifling and tolerances.

Examples:

45 Colt. Many modern arms still retain the oversized chamber from the blackpowder designs even though it is detrimental to accuracy and case life with smokeless.

The Model 1894 Winchester. First introduced in 38-55, a black powder cartridge. I do not know if a modern 1894 in 38-55 would have any differences in chambering and rifling or not. Next chambered in what we call today the 30-30, this was a smokeless cartridge. Then came the 32 Special. The term "Special" originally denoted a cartridge intended to be loaded with either smokeless or black, usually from the factory with smokeless and then loaded by the reloader with black. In order to accomodate the black powder fouling the 32 Special has a slower rate of twist in the rifling and retained the slow twist rate to the end of its manufacture in modern times.

The S&W and the 38 Special. Again a cartridge intended to be used with either smokeless or black. The chamber and barrel dimensions have not changed, but I'd highly recommend not using +p loads in one manufactured in 1908. We have grown so used to using smokeless in this cartridge it would be confusing to call it a blackpowder number and most people have long forgotten what the term "Special" meant if they ever knew. I would not call a late manufactured 38 Special arm a blackpowder arm because it would be intended for smokeless loads.

 

[montanadan]

unspellable

38 special as we know it today was originally issued as 38-22.most records indicate as early as 1887.Respectfully montanadan

 

[unspellable]

38 Special

The 38 Special originated in 1902 along with the S&W M&P. The M&P was intended to have two chamberings, the new 38 Special created along with it and the 32-20. It's the 32-20 that gave the K frame S&W's their long cylinder. (First became aware of the long cylinder when my M19 loads would not fit in my Python.) The 38 Long Colt was the inspiration for the 38 Special, but they use differing bullet diameters. S&W had hopes of selling the 38 Special to the US military as an improved version of the 38 Long Colt. Didn't happen, although the 38 Special did go on to fame and fortune on the civilian market and in later years became a secondary US military issue.

I have never heard the 38 Special referred to as a 38-22 nor have I found any refence to such a cartridge.

Perhaps you are thinking of the old black powder 38-44 (Not the 38-44 High Speed version of the 38 Special.) which was, along with the 32-44, a target cartridge for the 44 tip up frame S&W. The dash 44 signifying that it was for the 44 tip up frame. These two cartridges seem to have fallen into obscurity and are not mentioned in Cartridges of the World. I do not remember what the powder charge was although I have it in a reference somewhere. The 38-44 may have been in the neighborhood of 22 grains, it was a midrange target load. They were unusual cartridges in that the bullet was seated entirely inside the case which was of full cylinder length ala 7.62 Nagent, although the purpose was not to seal the cylinder gap but to avoid any bullet upset before the bullet reached the forcing cone. I have toyed with the idea of a modern wildcat with the same feature.