Body Armor For Civilians....

[2RCO]

There were times in Banking that I wouldn't have minded having a vest on. Many convenience store workers wear them in higher risk areas. Anyone who has had threats made against their life might consider one. I don't own any body armor but I can justify it for civilians.

I wouldn't really want to wear one daily because they don't appear super comfortable. Now if things ever get really dicey outside I might consider purchasing one to go to the grocery store.

 

[middleground]

not having any myself is different from prohibiting others

I do not have a job that I feel would warrent body armor.

given what body armor costs, I would probably be better off spending that money on better doors/locks, a better security system, a better dog, or better training...or dare I say it, better guns and ammo.

All that aside, I completely feel that it should be an individuals choice to buy armor or not. I do think the "because I can" justification is good enough.

I think that there should not be many things in life that I need to justify buying.

 

[runrabbitrun]

Poll says 80% of people who are civilians dont think that "because they can" is a good enough reason.

Your POLL is ridiculous and sounds like the same type premise
gun grabbers use to ask why do WE need this or that type weapon.

IMO of course

 

[carebear]

Poll says 80% of people who are civilians dont think that "because they can" is a good enough reason.

That's not what the poll says.

It simply says, of the people who responded, most don't own any, not why in particular they don't.

There are as many reasons as there are people as to why they might not choose to own body armor at any given time.

It might be unlawful where they live, it might not be a financial expense they feel necessary or able to prioritize or they may never have considered it before.

Don't assume facts not in evidence to support your position, it's intellectually dishonest.

Conversely, if you want to answer a "why" question ask a "why" question.

 

[xbox360]

I think its illeagl in most states. I dont see why it is you should beable to own it if you want just like a gun, fill out paperwork like a gun and you get one. its for your own safty after all.

 

[carebear]

Why should you need to fill out paperwork for a piece of fabric?

There's a rational argument, however much I disagree with it, that guns have the potential to harm others somehow if misused but possessing or even wearing a vest in public is absolutely "harm" neutral.

If it is use in a crime we're worried about the solution isn't to regulate the vest (as with guns or drugs a criminal will get one if they want one), simply make it an aggravating condition at sentencing as a deterrent.

Make that 5-15 for armed robbery, 10-15 or something.

 

[Jeff White]

Hi everybody,
I think one common sense reason for a civilian to own body armor is in the terrible event of a home invasion.
I know a buddy who bought a vest to wear, in the unlikely event that he has to defend his family from an armed home intruder.
Makes a lot of sense to me, wish I could afford one for myself, but wow! $$$$$
Thanks

I'm a civilian, and I wear my armor since I'm an armored car guard. To be honest if I didn't have that job I wouldn't have bought the vest. Though it is nice to have around if someone decides to pull a home invasion where I live.

I've only got one question for you guys. Do you think the home invaders are going to call you on the phone and say; "Hey dude, me and my homies are going to be over at 11:30 tonight to kick your door down and take your stuff!"

Body armor is useless unless you are wearing it when you need it. I never carried my vest in the squad to put on if I was dispatched to a dangerous call, I put it on before I went on duty. In fact, the one time that I did take off duty action (people were breaking into my neighbor's truck at 11:30 at night) I didn't think to put it on before I confronted them and held them for the on duty deputies. I heard about forgetting it from my wife too.

I read all kinds of posts in S&T about how people keep body armor and maybe even a bat belt full of useful equipment beside the bed next to their home defense firearm. But I wonder if anyone has ever actually rehearsed waking up and actually kitting out with their body armor and bat belt before they responded to whatever stimulus awakened them.

I also wonder if you guys sit around in the evening before bed all kitted out ready for battle? Say you and your significant other are sitting on the couch watching your favorite show and unwinding before bed, maybe even getting ready to enjoy a romantic moment. Are you all kitted out in your armor and bat belt? If you aren't, what return do you expect from the investment you made in that equipment?

I honestly think that people don't realize how fast bad things happen and how long it takes to get ready, especially after a shot of adrenalin. There is a reason why Soldiers sleeping in a patrol base sleep in their combat gear. For most of us it's just not reasonable to expect to be suddenly awakened and be clear headed enough to strap on all your gear. And even if you are one of those rare people who can wake from a sound sleep totally alert and clear headed, how much time do you think you are going to have?

I've got nothing against body armor, I have a lot of it around here left over from my days as a police officer. But the only reason I kept it is to use in training. I still instruct and train. In many places you have to have armor and sometimes hard plates to work the shoot house. I have a Paraclete RAV from my time on the tactical team with fairly new level IIIA soft armor and SAPI plates. If I didn't still use it in training, I would sell it.

I really think some of you guys are stretching things a bit to justify the purchase of some kewl gear. And there is nothing wrong with that. We still live in the most free country on the planet and we shouldn't have to justify what we want to anyone but ourselves. But while you're justifying the purchase of body armor to yourselves, I'd ask you to think how much more useful spending the money you will spend on body armor that you will most likely never use as intended on professional training and practice ammunition instead?

Body armor would be near the bottom of the list If I were recommending a list of things to acquire to be totally prepared unless there was a clearly defined threat of attack serious enough to justify not only acquiring body armor, but actually wearing it most of the time.

 

[carebear]

Jeff,

I don't disagree with your post in general, but wouldn't a person's reasoning on buying a vest necessarily take into account how hard a target their home is and what their particular defensive plan(s) involves?

Maybe they have thought it all through and train, it seems a bit harsh to start from the position that most folks haven't.

If you've got a hardened perimeter and some interior obstacles, slipping a vest over your head doesn't take that much more time, especially if the "balloon goes up after we're in bed" is to hunker behind the bed, call 911 and cover the already locked, solid core bedroom door.

I don't own a vest because it isn't the best use of several hundred bucks for me, but I can definitely think of several ways I could assimilate one into my current plans and training if I got a screaming deal or one fell into my lap.

Your post makes sense, but it seems like there's an overreliance (however correct) on the assumption that most people are ignorant gear hounds who dismiss training.

 

[2RCO]

I honestly think that people don't realize how fast bad things happen and how long it takes to get ready, especially after a shot of adrenalin. There is a reason why Soldiers sleeping in a patrol base sleep in their combat gear. For most of us it's just not reasonable to expect to be suddenly awakened and be clear headed enough to strap on all your gear. And even if you are one of those rare people who can wake from a sound sleep totally alert and clear headed, how much time do you think you are going to have?

A couple months ago my Alarm System went off while I was soundly asleep and showed a motion detector going off in a section of Casa 2RCo that should only occur in a break in. I was a bit less than on top game. Luckily I had a 1911 with a Light on the Rail ready to go so I busted down to that area of the house to find someone had in fact tried to get in (unsuccessfully thank god) but been scared (apparently) by the alarm and bolted off.

It was at this point I realized I was in my Boxers with a loaded gun and didn't have my Cell phone with me etc. --I also hadn't talked to the Alarm center personal. After checking the whole house I grab my phone and see several missed calls from alarm Co.. I call the Alarm Co. lady is convinced I am either not me or being held hostage. I finally convince her I'm me and all is clear using alarm co. protocol. By the way several local deputies were en route at this point.

Had I been blessed with presence of mind I'd have grabbed some pants and shoes and my cellphone at least. So putting on body armor probably takes way more to pull of in a home invasion than I am capable of.

 

[maskedman504]

I just got some body armor off of Ebay and I don't know much about; maybe some of you guys can help? It is a fully body armor, molded carbon fiber unit; I am putting it on and will post pics soon. Thanks in advance.

 

[ravencon]

I, too, am skeptical that in the event that there is a home invasion I'd have time to "suit up".

That said, I think having BA, if one can afford it, is a prudent investment. I can readily envision a time when crime rates and general lawlessness may far exceed what we have now. Should that day come BA will be something many will long for but will then be unable to obtain.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i go to maqke calls at house where folks are real drunk/high in order to try to get em into rehab. they can be right erratic. i have 2 vests one for me and one for whoever i take with me. i never take my eyes of em. and the other person drives i ride in back behind whoever we are taking in so i can choke em out if need be. some guys get right nasty when they are on the way to the hospital. i expect them to be armed hence the vest. and the girls can be the worst.

 

[carebear]

2RCO,

You are fortunate.

You just had a training opportunity, use those lessons learned.

You now know to practice, for when an alarm goes off, some variation of the following steps.

A: Stage response gear properly

B: Get geared up / Identify alarm zone and thus which plan to use

C: Establish comms with police / alarm system

D: Take a deep breath

E: Take another

F: If you then still feel the need to go hunting, only then execute your preplanned and practiced method

There's no reason why "slip a vest over your head" (if you ever decided to get one) should take more than a fraction of a second added to putting on some kind of footwear and gathering yourself mentally before charging off.

Just like when out and about, most important is to have already figured out a plan, in general, for the most likely of the "what ifs" ("most likely" of course relative to the general unlikelihood of anything bad happening in the first place).

 

[Suicide*Ride]

Quote:
OP said - Poll says 80% of people who are civilians dont think that "because they can" is a good enough reason.

Carebear said - That's not what the poll says.

It simply says, of the people who responded, most don't own any, not why in particular they don't.

Thank you Carebear! You took the words right out of my mouth!!

I don't own body armor because I don't need it, but when & if I ever do (God forbid), I'll buy it because I can!

I've noticed in most cases, the bulk of people who think body armor shouldn't be sold to the general public (besides Anti's) are LEOs who don't want the BG's to have a level of self-defense equaling their own. The Hollywood shootout comes to mind.

OP, why would you care if your neighbor down the street owns or wants to own insurance on his car?! Same question.... only this time substitute life for car.

Why don't you ask forum members "How many of you believe in RKBA?" It will probably be just as 1-sided as your "Armor" poll.

Having a scanner in your vehicle is illegal in some states, but would you ask why do you own 1 because of that?

 

[tkopp]

Only times I've ever had occasion for a gun were when I was woken from bed.

Surprised the hell out of a horny Japanese man looking for a hooker though. Didn't expect me to come running in my briefs.

 

[catspa]

Body armor is an item of safety equipment, like hard hats and leather gloves for construction workers or harnesses for linemen. It prevents or reduces the danger from a particular hazard.

However, the hazard it mitigates is an emotionally charged and media sensationalized one.

Parker

 

[armoredman]

I have armor, gifts, and my SON has his own Gold Flex IIIA vest, made for a midget, that fits him. We HAVE drilled him in, hear bad noises, (gunshots, screams, etc), he throws his vest on and dives under the bed. Like I said, it was a gift.

 

[Jeff White]

Carebear,
First off, it's good to see you posting again. I was wondering where you went. Welcome back.

I don't disagree with your post in general, but wouldn't a person's reasoning on buying a vest necessarily take into account how hard a target their home is and what their particular defensive plan(s) involves?

Maybe they have thought it all through and train, it seems a bit harsh to start from the position that most folks haven't.

I'd really like to think that's true, but my personal experience tells me otherwise. There are a lot of so called professionals who have to be convinced they need to train. And from what I know of the shooting community in general, training is usually the last thing people think about. If quality training was all that much in demand, the schools couldn't accommodate them all. I've taken a lot of open classes and one thing I've noticed is that I tend to run into the same people there. It seems that the American way is to substitute equipment for skill.

I don't think that my post offended anyone who does take training and practice seriously and hopefully it will make others think about it.

Regarding body armor, I've got years of time sweating in it under my belt. I can't imagine wearing it in the absence of a clearly articulated threat. If I knew I was going in harms way, I definitely would be wearing it. But to wear it just so I was prepared for a very unlikely attack is not worth the trade off in comfort for me. Everyone is of course free to make their own decision.

Good body armor is expensive and I think for most people the money that they would spend on body armor would be more effectively spent on training, practice ammunition, good locks, doors and windows or alarm systems.

If one has an unlimited budget for things like that it's a different story, but how many of us are in the position of having an unlimited budget to spend on personal defense?

 

[sernv99]

If I hunted on public lands I might consider it as well.

yeah why don't you buy a helmet and a Nomex suit so that when you drive around town, you can survive a crash and an explosion of your gas tank

body armor for hunting

 

[TexasRifleman]

body armor for hunting

More accidental/negligent shootings occur when hunting than any other gun related activity.

 

[sernv99]

I also wonder if you guys sit around in the evening before bed all kitted out ready for battle?

Jeff hits the nail on the head.

they probably sit around behind the sandbags and barded wire in their living room, lights out, 20 mags loaded up with their AR/AK, listening for the first sign of a break-in.

 

[sernv99]

Again you show how little you know about firearm related incidents.

again, you show how your logic is seriously flawed by fantasies and fiction.

Hunting accidents are the most likely places to be shot, outside of criminal activity.

yeah, all hunters should lug around body armor yeah genius idea, let me go buy some and wear while pushing cornfields for 3 hours looking for deer. My chances of getting **** while hunting is less than getting hit by acar while jaywalking. Should i be wearing a helmet while crossing the street too?

 

[TexasRifleman]

again, you show how your logic is seriously flawed by fantasies and fiction.

No, I simply quote well documented facts. People can decide for themselves if they think the danger is enough to warrant worrying about.

Hunting accidents are not rare, especially on crowded public land. Whether or not body armor is a good idea is up to the individual. That you don't think it is doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't. The question posted was why would a non LE consider wearing it.

Should i be wearing a helmet

Some people should.

 

[sernv99]

No, I simply quote well documented facts. That you don't do enough research to see if they are true or not is your fault.

why don't you post your brilliant idea on some hunting forums, see what their reaction is LOL Probably the same reaction you will get when you tell your senators you advocate for all felons to have the RKBA


I am finding it extremely difficult to answer that question and remain High Road.

why? because someone called you out on your flawed logic and doesn't agree with you?

 

[lvcat2004]

I don't disagree with Texasrifleman. We all wear a seat belt when we drive don't we?? How many accidents have I gotten into that my sealbelt has helped?? ZERO in 20 years of driving. Would I still wear a seatbelt? hell yes I will.

Would I wear a armored vest while hunting?? Well, I haven't, but I'd definitely wear my orange. When I go Coyote hunting in all camo no orange, I think an armored vest IS a good idea. I don't know what kind of idiot is around me that could shoot me without having posititive ID on the target.

If armored vest were CHEAPER and less confining then a LOT more people would probably wear it hunting. Remember back in the days when all of us where riding bikes without helmets?? What do you see now?? There is no point in being so arrogrant and biggoted about others opininos, be open minded man, things change.