Body Armor: ridiculous or prudent?

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

What is you opinion on the wearing of body armor for a home defense situation? I mean this in a serious way, so please forgo suggesting the duct taping of trauma plates to one's body. This is somewhat of a continuance of the Home Defense Rig thread. Some people scoffed at the idea of wearing body armor as if it is over the top, paranoid, or ridiculous. Do you believe this to be true? Or do you perhaps believe that it would take too long or be too difficult to put on a vest before inspecting a bump in the night? I don't mean if you plan on buying some or not, but purely in the theoretical sense. If someone just gave you a vest, would it end up in a closet somewhere, or do you think integrating it into your home defense plan would be a smart thing to do. Would it be worth the effort to put it on? Or do you think that is just "too much" as far as preparedness goes?

Keep in mind guns, knives and lights can certainly harm an attacker. But they cannot inherently stop him from harming you.

You hear a bump in the night. You want to see what it is. Most of us would bring a gun. Why? Because it might be something that we need to defend ourselves against. There might be a threat to our lives, and we want to be able to end that threat. So we agree that taking an offensive weapon is prudent. What about defense? We're taking the gun because that bump might be something that can harm us. Would it not also be wise to try to mitigate that possibility of harm to ourselves? There is no certainty you will get the first shot off, or will hit what you're aiming at.

Again, you're taking the gun because you already think "there might be something that can kill me". So does "there might be something that can kill me, BUT wearing something that can protect me is silly and ridiculous" make any real sense? The situation might be dangerous enough where you think it's wise to bring along a tool that can end a human life. Yet bringing a tool that might keep your life from being ended is over the top?

 

[Sam1911]

If you have it and you have time, it can't hurt. In general, you shouldn't be going looking for trouble, but trying to hunker down in a safe spot, pinch point, defensive perimeter (with your loved ones protected). But once there you are the line of resistance to whatever unpleasantness you suspect might be coming your way. If you have the means to further harden yourself and your position, why not take advantage of it?

Now, I'm not going to put it on every night over my PJs before hitting the sack, and my personal situation might not afford me a lot of time to be putting on armor, but if if the opportunity arose, maybe.

"Just a miiiiinute, I'll be right theeeere, I'm not reaaaaadyyyy!"

 

[dprice3844444]

if you have the time to put it on do it.if the perp is armed,it will save your life,plus er bills.don't forget to put a shirt on over it.perp see's vest,might aim for head

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I have a plate carrier that just drops over my head. I've set my alarm for 0230 and tested myself. I can wake up from a dead sleep and have the vest on over my head in less than 4 seconds. It takes longer to put a robe on than a plate carrier.

 

[Rail Driver]

I had a IIIA vest for awhile that I'd keep next to my shotgun (next to my bed), and would practice getting it on quickly at random times at night (from sleep... I'd have my gf wake me up). I would also wear it when going to the public range (rough place, the public range...)

I've since sold it because I needed the money, but I'm looking for replacements (at least 2, but ideally one for each family member) now that I've talked my girlfriend into "prepping".

 

[Crusader103]

Many years in law enforcement and military service has left me with several vests, plate carriers, and flak jackets. Given the time, I would feel a lot dumber not putting one on and wishing I had than putting one on and not needing it.

A vest is generally readily accessible to me. I will grab the gun first and, given the time, put the vest on. I don't think that is over the top at all.

 

[Chindo18Z]

Because the vast majority of people have zero experience with body armor, they are unable to visualize its ease of use, low cost, or potential benefit. However, I think that millions of former service members and LEOs with experience at wearing armor will gradually change the market paradigm in US civilian circles. Those former users don't think armor is silly and will purchase the stuff for personal use today and in the future. Public perception will change as a result. Actually, that perception is already changing. In a few more years, only the untutored will even question the utility of owning lightweight armor.

Today, effective soft armor is relatively cheap, more readily available than ever before, and anyone can equip themselves for less than the cost of an average new handgun. Used vests can be found easily in the $150 - $300 range. New vests can be purchased for $400-$500.

There was a time when wear of seat belts was the center of a great debate (and seat belts were merely optional equipment in automobiles). But seat belts proved to save lives. And most folks today choose to vote with their common sense and buckle up.

Two decades ago, tactical flashlights/weapon lights were considered to be "over the top" by many shooters. Now they are as common as dirt, because they proved to be effective, affordable, and practical.

Within the community of citizens who choose to employ firearms for home defense, armor will continue to make inroads as a commonly encountered defensive accessory. Modern armor is low in cost, simple to wear, and effective in use. It's as easy to don soft body armor as it is to slip on a jacket. If you have the money, why not own the tool?

 

[fallout mike]

I gave my opinion which was apparently deleted. I don't disregard body armor in general I just do with the stated use of the op. If you hear your front door crash in during the night you will not have time to realize what woke you up, get your gun out, & put on body armor. Setting your alarm clock and knowing what you are waking up to do is totally different than something waking you up and you aren't sure what it was or if it was for real and not a dream.

 

[Wapato]

First off, I think the general wisdom is that you're there to protect yourself and your family, and your homeowners insurance is there take care of something happening to your TV downstairs. But if you've decided you're going to be a one man tactical team body armor would probably be prudent.

Although, come to think of it, if I had some on hand I could see throwing it on if somebody is knocking on my door at 3 am.

 

[Sam1911]

But if you've decided you're going to be a one man tactical team body armor would probably be prudent.

Actually, I see the value as just as real for someone hunkering down at the top of the stairs, or in cover behind a corner or door frame, or even in the bedroom behind the bed. Most structures in a home aren't very good at stopping bullets. If I'm overwatching from a position of concealment behind a corner made of spruce 2x4s and drywall...I might indeed like a vest.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

First off, I think the general wisdom is that you're there to protect yourself and your family, and your homeowners insurance is there take care of something happening to your TV downstairs. But if you've decided you're going to be a one man tactical team body armor would probably be prudent.

So if you are woken up by a noise at night, any sort of noise, do you investigate? Or do you assume it's a threat, hunker down, and call the police?

If you investigate, do you bring a gun? If yes, why?

 

[X-Rap]

I have seen many threads that discount specific sights because of the time it takes to turn it on so given the choice of body armor and an effective sight I would choose the sight.
That said, I also think that there are situations in which some might find the need or want to have the additional protection. This scenario would mostly be in a rural, border or low LE coverage area in which the property owner may have to act on his own. I know many will say wait for the cops but I believe these things are worth preparing for.
In the home, barricaded, I would think something on the order of a ballistic shield would be worth considering.

 

[Sam1911]

do you investigate

You're derailing your own thread here.

We've had the "Don't Clear Your House" thread* many many times already. Seems like we should keep this one focused on the value of body armor, right?

(* Here's probably the most recent one: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7770914. Another: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=529243 ... there are lots, all with about the same answers.)

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Sam, I see your point, but I'm making a point of my own.

One of the stated reasons not to own or use body armor appears to be [well you shouldn't be a "one man tactical team" and just protect your own family]

Except that's avoiding the question. The question was if body armor should be part of an overall plan. Whether you investigate or not, do you think it's smart? Talking about staying in your bedroom to avoid the threat is dodging the question. A: the threat can still come to you, so that renders that idea moot. B: we've had a ton of threads, as you said, about whether people should investigate. A lot of people say they will unless they know for sure that it is in fact a burglar.

So, you hear a bump in the night. You don't know what it is. It could be a raccoon. It could be wind. It could be a tree branch. It could be a home invader with a gun. You don't know. You have essentially two options.

A: Assume a defensive posture. Either stay in your room, or go get your loved ones, bring them back to your room and stay put. Wait it out and hope it was not a threat, be proactive and call the police, have your dog sniff it out, whatever. A defensive posture centered around staying in one place to minimize contact with the possible threat. Do you feel body armor would be something that it would be smart to put on in case it is a threat that comes to you?

B: You proactively investigate. You intend on leaving your room to go find out what the noise or disturbance was. You prepare yourself however you see fit. What do you bring? Gun and maybe reloads? Most would say yes. Light source? Again most would say yes to that too. Cell phone? Most would probably say yes. These are pretty common tools among those on THR. A gun obviously is offensive. If there is a threat to your life, it can stop it by damaging it enough that it is incapable of moving in a threatening manner or possibly scare it away. A light can be used to gather information, or possibly even offensively, as in blinding the threat. A phone is used to transmit information, such as to call for assistance from the police.

All of these tools are pretty common among things brought to investigate a disturbance. None of them are defensive. None of them can stop physical harm to you.

If you bring a gun at all to investigate, OR you grab your gun to wait in your room you've already decided there might be a threat to your life, to the point where a tool that can damage that threat could be used. If you're grabbing a gun at all, it means you've acknowledged the possibility of a threat. With that in mind, is a tool that can protect you from physical harm worth the effort?

 

[Sam1911]

Fair enough. But lets try hard to keep this focused so we don't go down that same rabbit hole again.

A: Assume a defensive posture. ... Do you feel body armor would be something that it would be smart to put on in case it is a threat that comes to you.

Yes, as I said before. If I have time, doing something to promote my survival and/or prolong my ability to resist attack and defend my family is very prudent.

B: You proactively investigate. You intend on leaving your room to go find out what the noise or disturbance was. ...

If you've got time to gather your things and go fishing for trouble, I'd sure think you'd have plenty of time to put on a vest. Going searching to find the other guy's ambush isn't smart. Refusing to put on a vest before you do is even dumber.

 

[taliv]

i agree with Chindo, but I'll add that it's dynamic. every culture throughout history has witnessed an evolution in equipment and tactics. my point is simply that once "everyone" starts using body armor, the bad guy tactics will change.

just like if all the bad guys were wearing body armor, our ccw tactics would change

 

[sidheshooter]

So then, where does one find a cheap used vest, and how does one avoid being taken by defective, or ineffective materials? We've had some threads here in the past that were definitely on the caveat emptor side of things when discussing materials, but not much light shed on where/how to shop.

In short, I think this thread wouldn't even be here if we could all grab our latest cabelas coupon, or run down to the LGS and pick up a good vest for less than a used 3" K-frame; it would be self-evident, like good eye and ear protection.

 

[LeonCarr]

Over 3000 Law Enforcement Officers have had their lives saved by Body Armor, and countless military personnel. I don't call that ridiculous at all.

http://www2.dupont.com/Kevlar/en_US/uses_apps/protection_vests/survivors_club.html

Good reading.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Mauser lover]

Do you need a special permit to own body armor? You know, like a full auto permit / FFL thing? If you don't need a permit, I would get a vest, and if nothing else, when someone stabs me, I could react with full strength; even if it does not stop a "real" bullet. (.357 Mag, .223 Rem, .300 Win Mag, etc....)
I know that most home invaders don't carry a Barrett or any other firearm for that matter, but you never really know, do you.

 

[Sam1911]

Do you need a special permit to own body armor?

No, though some states do have laws that concern armor.

You know, like a full auto permit / FFL thing?

A what?

when someone stabs me

Kevlar vests don't stop knives.

 

[beatledog7]

The effectiveness of various forms of body armor is a continual topic of debate, but there's little doubt that any of us would like to be wearing the best available if we take a round.

I wore the stuff in the line of duty, and it darn near killed me. I couldn't shoot worth a darn wearing full soft armor, plates, and a kevlar helmet. I'm better off being free to move fast and aim true.

I live alone, so there are no family members that I need to protect. My only common house guests are my daughter, who's trained to dive under the bed, and my brother, who was a USAF cop and is fully versed in how to protect himself. So, I'd spend the money that body armor costs on a very loud and nervous dog. No, make that two or even three dogs. They will be a more effective additional line of defense than body armor for me.

 

[OregonJohnny]

I've had my eye on the US Palm Defender vest that retails for $199, and has a level IIIA soft armor panel in the front, just large enough to cover your vitals (about 10" wide by 12.5" tall). It looks to be about the minimum level of protection, but at a very competitive price.

Since I have no children in the house, and no reason to go clearing it, my home defense strategy at this point includes barricading my wife and myself in the master bedroom behind a locked door with land line and cell phones accessible, and a weapon (or 2) ready to go. If I hear a door being kicked in or my very alert, protective, and loud dog going nuts, I would like the option of adding that extra piece of defense by slipping a lightweight vest over my head in less than 5 seconds.

The added benefit of a vest like the US Palm Defender MOLLE, is that it can carry all sorts of different tools in MOLLE compatible pouches, if you had no other choice but to move through your house or even outside. I make my own kydex holsters for just about everything, and I could see having a flashlight, extra magazines, a holster, cell phone pouch, maybe even a first aid kit, all securely attached. Think of it as a utility/duty belt that spreads it's weight over your shoulders, back, and chest instead of around your waist.

If it adds less than 5 seconds to your home defense strategy, and costs about the same as 8 boxes of .45ACP range ammo, why not have something like this in your home defense tool kit?

 

[outdoorsman1]

To answer the specific OP question..... Prudent.

OregonJohnny said....

..."and I could see having a flashlight, extra magazines, a holster, cell phone pouch, ...

Also prudent as I carry all of the above on a daily basis... on my belt.

Outdoorsman1

 

[Loosedhorse]

What is you opinion on the wearing of body armor for a home defense situation?

I own some, and it is right next to my HD shotgun. I consider it part of my barricaded defender equipment: I'm gonna make the guy break the bedroom door down and force me to shoot him. Well, that's the plan, anyway.

Actually, those fibers degrade over time, and it's probably time I replaced it. Defender looks good, but not sure I'm going to do that soon. Until then, I hope what I have is better than nothing.

Trouble with armor is you can't take it out to the range, shoot it, and then say, "Yeah, that works!" and put it back on the "ready" shelf!

No, though some states do have laws that concern armor.

In MA, there are enhanced penalties for committing a crime while using armor. A crime like manslaughter, if your SD legal defense doesn't work out. Armor is like all other defensive tools: prevention is far safer than use!

 

[krupparms]

I read a article on this subject written by a writer for a popular gun magazine. The guy said he kept a S.C. Fanny pak. that had a front panel that had a loop on top that you put over your head. He kept a handgun, flashlight, cellphone & extra mags. along with handcuffs in pouch of Fanny pak. He hung it on peg next to bed
All he had to do was drop loop over head & fasten the belt of fanny pak . He said that way it was all there! He is a LEO with alot of experience, ( M. A.).Seems like a good idea! I keep one nearby the bed w/ gear mentioned. Hope I don't have to use it! Last year had someone stick a gun in my face &force their way into home! Still in court on that one! Even though they broke the law, They still don't won't to pay for crimes . But that is for Leagle Thread. I think this is a good idea.