Dose a bolt action have to have a free floating barrel and bedded stock to shoot repeated rounds through it accurately? I'm looking for a bolt action for target shooting but I don't want to pay a ton for a custom rifle. I was looking at the Weatherby Vanguard HB-ST model in .223. How inaccurate dose a standard bolt rifle become when the barrel heats up? I just want the rifle to be fairly accurate at 100 to 150 yards.
Bolt action question.
- Thread starter gleaner26
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I've owned quite a few rifles over my lifetime so I'll give you my experience. I've read that free floating does not always help. From my experience that is nonsense.
Most rifles I've owned were capable of 1" groups brand new. After free floating the barrel that size went down to 1/2" or smaller.
I own a few Remington 700's and in my opinion they aren't accurate enough. Remington believes there should be pressure on the barrel for accuracy. Sorry, but I've proven them wrong.
Winchester seems to have gotten the message. The last one I purchased shot 1/2" brand new and was free floated from the factory.
Savage got the message too. I've owned 2, both free floated from the factory. Again 1/2" groups.
Most rifles I've owned were capable of 1" groups brand new. After free floating the barrel that size went down to 1/2" or smaller.
I own a few Remington 700's and in my opinion they aren't accurate enough. Remington believes there should be pressure on the barrel for accuracy. Sorry, but I've proven them wrong.
Winchester seems to have gotten the message. The last one I purchased shot 1/2" brand new and was free floated from the factory.
Savage got the message too. I've owned 2, both free floated from the factory. Again 1/2" groups.
It can go either way. I have two accurate rifles. They are free floated. My brother-in-law has one annoyingly accurate rifle. It's a plain old Remington ADL, not free floated.
If that Weatherby did not shoot to your satisfaction as is, it would be no big deal to float the barrel.
If that Weatherby did not shoot to your satisfaction as is, it would be no big deal to float the barrel.
I think Float Pilot's thread on the Ruger 77/22 Hornet proved that free floating sometimes give the opposite effect.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=571884&page=2
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=571884&page=2
Blackrock
Member
Rifles, heck all firearms, are ficlkle as a woman. Can't state flat out what will work every time. Just work withwhat you have and learn the traits of it. Just about every rifle produced today is capable of reasonable accuracy with factory ammo right out of the box.
Nico Testosteros
Member
As pretty much everyone has said , no, neither is a requisite for an accurate rifle.
gamestalker
member
I free float all my B.A.s .Before floating they would produce stringing groups as the barrel warmed up. That issue went away after floating them.
In the old days, when stocks were wood, if it was bedded and free-floated then it provided less chance for that wood stock to warp and shift the point of impact. Synthetics have changed that, to a degree. Now instead of wood warping, we have to worry about tupperware flexing. Let's put it this way: it probably won't hurt the accuracy if it's free-floated. My Savages and Tikka's are free-floated, and shoot dandy. The Savages are billed as pillar-bedded and free-floated. I just looked at the Browning X-Bolt literature, and it says the action is glass-bedded, with a free-floating barrel. However, bear in mind that a certain percentage of anything made, whether it's guns or toasters or people, are defective when they come out of the factory, so nothing in this life is guaranteed, except death.
Free floating by itself won't necessarily guarantee accuracy. The action needs to be properly bedded, whether free floated or not. If the barrel is not free floated, it can be accurate but the pressure on the barrel has to be consistent and in the correct place on a vibration node. This is more difficult to achieve unless you just get lucky and the contact is in the right place to start with. Even then a lot depends on the integrity of the stock. Wood WILL change with humidity and temperature. Metal will change with temperature. Wood and metal do not change equally, which can be the cause of accuracy problems (i.e. vertical stringing as the barrel heats). Wooden stocks can warp slightly, causing the contact pressure to vary against the barrel. Many methods have been tried to limit these things. One popular one used to be to glass a metal (usually aluminum) rod or square into the fore end, after properly inletting it of course. Results kind of varied. Some smiths would attempt to find the "sweet spot" and make a bump of some sort in the barrel channel so only that spot made contact with the barrel. Target shooters then and now often used a torque wrench to secure the action to the stock with exactly the same pressure each time. This is often a critical component to accuracy. Probably the most popular and easiest method has been to float the barrel and bed the action using something like Accraglass from Brownell's along with properly torquing the screws. This doesn't guarantee accuracy, but it will generally give about as good of results as can be achieved with your rifle. Some barrels are more accurate than others.
I have no experience with synthetic stocks, so I don't know how much they change due to temperature. The pressure applied to the barrel would still have to be in the proper location and be consistent.
There is no magic bullet (pun intended
). If you want the most from your rifle, it will take some time and effort, but heck, who doesn't like playing around with guns anyway!
I have no experience with synthetic stocks, so I don't know how much they change due to temperature. The pressure applied to the barrel would still have to be in the proper location and be consistent.
There is no magic bullet (pun intended
). If you want the most from your rifle, it will take some time and effort, but heck, who doesn't like playing around with guns anyway!
Float Pilot
Member
Over the last 45 years or so, I have discovered that some rifles like free-floating, some like a full barrel bed and some prefer a single pressure point near the end of the barrel channel.
As for light-weight barrels, they tend to heat up and warp after multiple shots.
They recover much faster at 10 below zero than they do at 80 above zero.
Here are some examples.
My m-700 Titanium Mountain rifle has a very thin barrel. It heats up immediately and strings the groups after 3 shots. It came with a pressure point in the barrel channel and it shot 3 inch groups out of the box. I then free floated the barrel and it shot great groups as long as I waited for 3-4 minutes between shots.
Then I glass bedded the whole barrel channel. The groups are a little larger than when it was free-floated, but they stay together a little longer when the barrel heats up. I can get 5 shots into a groups rapid fire before the group opens up, when it was only two shots before.
Now on the other hand I also have a M-98 Mauser that has a fairly heavy Douglas #5 tapered barrel mounted on it. I chambered it in 7x57mm Mauser back in 1973. Due to a goof while inletting the stock, I elected to glass bed the action and barrel channel.
Here is how it shoots after 38 years of use.
All groups I publish are at 100 yards:
As for light-weight barrels, they tend to heat up and warp after multiple shots.
They recover much faster at 10 below zero than they do at 80 above zero.
Here are some examples.
My m-700 Titanium Mountain rifle has a very thin barrel. It heats up immediately and strings the groups after 3 shots. It came with a pressure point in the barrel channel and it shot 3 inch groups out of the box. I then free floated the barrel and it shot great groups as long as I waited for 3-4 minutes between shots.
Then I glass bedded the whole barrel channel. The groups are a little larger than when it was free-floated, but they stay together a little longer when the barrel heats up. I can get 5 shots into a groups rapid fire before the group opens up, when it was only two shots before.
Now on the other hand I also have a M-98 Mauser that has a fairly heavy Douglas #5 tapered barrel mounted on it. I chambered it in 7x57mm Mauser back in 1973. Due to a goof while inletting the stock, I elected to glass bed the action and barrel channel.
Here is how it shoots after 38 years of use.
All groups I publish are at 100 yards:
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NCsmitty
Member
Ain't that the truth!
The Titanium isn't a target rifle but if you give it cooling time, it obviously can give a good showing. I'm sure it's sweet to carry.
I've always had good results floating the barrels on the rifles that I have. The only factory rifle that I have not touched is my Rem 541-T, and it's completely stock. You don't get much heat buildup in a heavy barrel 22 rimfire.
NCsmitty
Welding Rod
Member
gleaner - yes.
If a high quality barrel isn't floated it may shoot good groups today, and it may shoot good groups tomorrow. But it won't necessarly shoot those two good groups to the same point of impact if the stock is bearing on the barrel differently on those two different days.
My opinion, barrels should float.
If a high quality barrel isn't floated it may shoot good groups today, and it may shoot good groups tomorrow. But it won't necessarly shoot those two good groups to the same point of impact if the stock is bearing on the barrel differently on those two different days.
My opinion, barrels should float.
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