Book: HEAD SHOT (deals with JFK thing)

[JohnKSa]

It's impossible to say for certain what happened.

However, it is completely accurate to say that it has been confirmed repeatedly and unquestionably that all of the hard evidence is perfectly consistent with LHO shooting JFK from the 6th floor window of the Book Depository using his surplus rifle.

Occams Razor strongly suggests, but does not absolutely demand, that the statement above, having been verified as fact, should be an end to the debate and investigation.

 

[tarosean]

report that they've found the murder weapon which is called a 7.65 Mauser and referred to as a "German rifle" and "Mauser" with the very specific (and unusual) caliber of 7.65. Everyone reports it that way initially:

Kind of like the recent CO shooting where it was reported an AK? Or The attempt on Reagan where it was first thought to be a 38? We could go on and on.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by JohnKSa: Occams Razor strongly suggests, but does not absolutely demand, that the statement above [(it has been confirmed repeatedly and unquestionably that all of the hard evidence is perfectly consistent with LHO shooting JFK from the 6th floor window of the Book Depository using his surplus rifle)], having been verified as fact, should be an end to the debate and investigation.

Of that part of the debate, of course.

Was there a connection between the Chicago plot and the very similar Dallas shooting? Did Sam Giancana have a motive to kill JFK? Did Carlos Marcello have a motive? Are the reports of discussions among them (which reportedly included Santo Trafficante) discussing how to stop RFK credible? Did Marcello, whose pilot knew Oswald for years, actually confess to having had Oswald do the deed? Are there tapes that contain such a confession?

None of those questions have been answered, but the answer to the first is probably "very possibly, yes"; to the second and third, "more than likely, yes"; to the fourth, fifth, and sixth, we do not know, but I have never heard anyone suggest that the answer to any of them is "no."

If the tapes do exist and are released before they are destroyed, that should put an end to the investigation.

 

[Cosmoline]

Kind of like the recent CO shooting where it was reported an AK?

Not really. It's not unusual to have vague misinformation like the wrong general type of firearm. So everything is famously an AK or a Glock in the MSM reports. But this was a VERY specific and pretty obscure firearm in a very specific and obscure cartridge. It can only come from someone either reading the numbers "7.65" and seeing the German language stamp on the side or being well enough versed in firearms to ID the thing from its appearance.

In this case the M-C looks enough like an M91 Mauser to make the mistake, and the deputy had sold guns so he knew the cartridge for the M91 was a 7.65. But it's pretty unusual. It would be like having a report from the theater shooting that he had an AR with an Alexander Arms upper in 6.5, then getting a correction that it a DD upper in 5.56.

So I'm pretty sure the WR was correct. And as far as knolls and second or third shooters, that's just a bunch of errant nonsense. The shots would have been vastly more difficult on a target moving laterally across your field of vision than the were from the BD window. Lay people assume closer targets are always easier ones to hit, because they're lay people. But while I can easily nail a gradually receding target at 50-150 yards, I'd have a much more difficult time tracking and hitting a target just 20 yards in front of me moving at a fair clip across my field of fire.

 

[JohnKSa]

Was there a connection between the Chicago plot and the very similar Dallas shooting? Did Sam Giancana have a motive to kill JFK? Did Carlos Marcello have a motive? Are the reports of discussions among them (which reportedly included Santo Trafficante) discussing how to stop RFK credible? Did Marcello, whose pilot knew Oswald for years, actually confess to having had Oswald do the deed? Are there tapes that contain such a confession?

Stretching, IMO.

For one thing, LHO was completely unstable and had demonstrated that fact on more than one occasion--with his whole life, in fact. No one with any brains or connections would involve him in, or depend on him, for anything important.

Second, the various conjectures about connections and motives are worth investigating as long as there's something in the hard evidence that doesn't make sense. In other words, when it appeared that there were inconsistencies in the evidence that called the official story into question, it made a lot of sense to look for conspiracies, connections that could support conspiracies and motives for conspiracies. Once the details of the crime itself are conclusively shown to be consistent with LHO acting alone and shooting from the SBD, there's basically nothing other than entertainment value that makes all that other stuff worthwhile.

 

[Kleanbore]

For one thing, LHO was completely unstable and had demonstrated that fact on more than one occasion--with his whole life, in fact. No one with any brains or connections would involve him in, or depend on him, for anything important.

Maybe not--but he was known by someone with a likely motive, and he was obviously willing and able.

Second, the various conjectures about connections and motives are worth investigating as long as there's something in the hard evidence that doesn't make sense.

One does not have to question the evidence that Oswald fired the shots--and all the shots--from the Schoolbook Depository to consider the likelihood of a conspiracy.

As a natter of fact, the Report did not state that there was no conspiracy; it simply stated that they did not find any evidence of a conspiracy, and that they did look into several possibilities, including foreign involvement, possible wrong-doing by Government agencies, allegations of connections between Oswald and Ruby, and the possibility that a third party arranged for Oswald's employment at the Schoolbook Depository.

The Warren Commission did not mention the Chicago plot with a similar intended MO; maybe only those of us living in Chicago heard about it at the time. The Warren Commission did not mention several obvious links between Oswald and Carlos Marcello, whose motives against RFK are self evident; and all of the reports about a taped Marcello confession came out almost three decades after the Commission Report.

I personally believe that Giancana (Chicago; enraged by RFK due to the crackdown on organized crime after he had pulled a lot of strings in Cook county on election day, 1960) and Marcello (New Orleans; deported by RFK and being pursued by him at the time; with subordinates who knew LHO) were in cahoots on the assassination. Others with obvious motives included James Hoffa and Santo Trafficante, both targets of RFK.

None of this contradicts the Commission Report at all, nor are the Commission's conclusions inconsistent with the possibility of a conspiracy.

 

[JohnKSa]

Maybe not--but he was known by someone with a likely motive, and he was obviously willing and able.

I think in retrospect we can see that he was able. Looking forward, in 1963, with nothing to go on but Oswald's past history of instability, his repeated demonstrations that he couldn't stick with anything for very long and his tendency to grandstand, I doubt that he would be characterized as "able" by anyone with any experience judging people.

...it simply stated that they did not find any evidence of a conspiracy...

Right. No one ever has.

That doesn't mean there wasn't one, it just means that there's no good reason to go looking for one.

If there really was one and it was executed so flawlessly that 50 years later we still have no evidence that it exists, then it's hard to come up with a reason to contradict the idea that it's pointless to keep looking. And if it wasn't executed flawlessly then why hasn't anyone been able to get so much as a fingernail under the edge of the scab in half a century of trying so we can get a peek?

Bottom line is that it may be entertaining to go looking for things based on the lack of evidence to support their existence, but it's not generally profitable in any sense of the word.

 

[Cosmoline]

his tendency to grandstand,

True, but if this was his personal attempt to make a Big Statement, why when the cameras were rolling and he was caught dead to rights did he say "I'm just a patsy"? It's always struck me as an odd thing for an agenda-driven assassin to claim. Why go to all the trouble to kill a President and then not take credit for it? If you look at other political assassinations and attempted assassinations, from Lincoln on down, the killers and would-be-killers may run, but they want to be known for what they did. They want the world to know. Sic semper, I done my duty and all that.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

True, but if this was his personal attempt to make a Big Statement, why when the cameras were rolling and he was caught dead to rights did he say "I'm just a patsy"? It's always struck me as an odd thing for an agenda-driven assassin to claim. Why go to all the trouble to kill a President and then not take credit for it? If you look at other political assassinations and attempted assassinations, from Lincoln on down, the killers and would-be-killers may run, but they want to be known for what they did. They want the world to know. Sic semper, I done my duty and all that.

Lee Harvey Oswald didn't follow a logical pattern of thought because he was involved in an illogical act. You can look at the history of assassinations and see it is a very poor way to accomplish political change.

For example, John Wilkes Booth (the man who shouted "Sic Semper Tyrannis" after shooting Lincoln) made things worse for the South instead of better. The men who assassinated Caesar brought on the end of the Roman Republic -- which they were supposedly trying to preserve. And so on.

So when we try to apply the rules of logic to an assassination, we're not likely to shed much light on the assassin's motives.

 

[scaatylobo]

We did

Yo Dollar,we did show all the proof that was/is not repressed.

Choose to trust what you are 'allowed' to know - good for you and enjoy the cool aid.

I see enough NOT allowed to be shown and the fact that I remember it first hand and all the crap that is now ancient history.

If your happy then so am I,but I see and saw differently.

Cool aid is cheap,enjoy.

 

[Tommygunn]

Choose to trust what you are 'allowed' to know - good for you and enjoy the cool aid.

Just who's doing the "allowing," scaatylobo? What organization is that? The CIA? The FBI? The HSA? The Bilderbergers? Boy Scouts of USA?

If you can be allowed to claim that there's a "conspiracy" but the "facts are being hidden" by "Men in Black" then all reason and logic is lost. You can claim JFK was shot by evil Klingons. When it's pointed out there is no legitimate evidence of extraterrestrials the response is "IT'S A CONSPIRACY! THE POWERS THAT BE WON'T RELEASE THE FACTS THAT PROVE IT WAS KLINGONS! IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT WAS KLINGONS YOU'RE DRINKING COOL-AID!!!"
None of this advances any argument at all, or puts an end to things. It's anti-intellectual BS that is adopted used and loved by cultists and the Westboro Baptists nutsos. and the like. It's empty air.

 

[Midwest]

I guess the rest of America drinks Kool Aid too...

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-215_162-23166.html

Most Americans still remain suspicious of the lone gunman conclusion of the Warren Commission Report and skeptical that the truth will ever be learned. Only one in 10 Americans believes that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. More than seven times as many think Oswald did not act alone.

Did Oswald act alone?
Yes
10%
No
76%

The same large majority of Americans believes there was an official government cover-up. By 74 percent to 13 percent, the public thinks there was an official cover-up to keep the public from learning the truth about the assassination.

 

[scaatylobo]

@ MIDWEST,lol

Guess its the cool aid drinkers are the SEVENTY SIX percent of the people that read the facts and might remember all the crap that is not now available to the public [ that alone smells 'funny',no ?].

Thank you for posting that which the SMALL minority know to be false.

As to who is concealing the truth,well bet they are not coming forth with that information = duh uh.

But all the alphabet soup groups were named in the pot of steaming 'stuff' that made up the conspiracy soup back when all the stuff was available.

And of course those who know better can find out all that was hidden over the past 49 years.

I truly expect to go to my grave without the knowledge of what transpired,not only that - but also Area 51 [ and I am sure some dont believe that exists either ].

 

[Billy Shears]

Guess its the cool aid drinkers are the SEVENTY SIX percent of the people that read the facts and might remember all the crap that is not now available to the public [ that alone smells 'funny',no ?].

Appeal to popularity fallacy. At one time, most people believed that the sun revolved around the earth, or that bleeding sick people was good for them. That didn't make it true.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Appeal to popularity fallacy. At one time, most people believed that the sun revolved around the earth, or that bleeding sick people was good for them. That didn't make it true.

And when they found out it wasn't true, the same nuts started believing in Kennedy Assassination conspiracies.