AJC1
Member
I clock the dies with a sharpie so I don't need as much toolage. Same process, though.
Bottleneck question?
- Thread starter Captain*kirk
- Start date
Captain*kirk
Member
Yes, quite genuine. I don't play games.
They say the only stupid question is the one you never ask. I've heard about bumping the shoulder back but never asked the question before (stupid of me, I know)
Thanks for the link!
Captain*kirk
Member
I've never annealed brass before, especially nickel plated. Unsure of how hot you want it to get? I've seen a lot of annealed brass in photos but it's not plated brass.
Varminterror
Member
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Tempilaq. Color change is a terrible indicator, bad practice. Use tempilaq, set your timer with it, then follow the timer (or set speed for your annealer with it).
nettlle
Contributing Member
I would full length resize and if they chamber and pass a case gauge leave it at that. I would see what kind of brass life you are getting first before going into the annealing stuff.
Lube your 303 Brit before firing. After firing, bump the shoulder back 0.003", and lube them again before firing.
The Brits had cupro nickle bullets which jacket fouled something awful. However, greasing the bullets prevented jacket fouling. Greasing a bullet will end up with grease in the chamber, which prevents case head separations. Such as:
Greased bullets and cases were very prevalent with SMLE's.
Chronicle Newspaper, 13 Feb 1930 Adelaide Australia
Rifle Shooting - GREASED BULLETS - Chronicle (Adelaide, SA : 1895 - 1954) - 13 Feb 1930
Opinion is so divided on the question of the benefits of using greased bullets that riflemen would be well advised to give the practice a thorough try-out to ...
trove.nla.gov.au
Rifle Shooting
GREASED BULLETS
Opinion is so divided on the question of the benefits of using greased, bullets that riflemen would be well advised to give the practice a thorough try-out to ascertain if their present method of shooting is giving the best results. This advice applies to those using a lot of lubricant, those using a little, and those who do not use any. There are prominent riflemen who pile the lubricant on the bullet and get good scores; there are others who have been equally as free with the grease and have got very bad scores; and naturally the two parties hold very different opinions on the subject. The greasing of bullets was introduced in an attempt to prevent the nickel of the bullet adhering to the surface of the inside of the barrel when firing was being carried out. The theory that a lubricant would prevent the two metals “sticking” appears quite in order, but this prevention had to be carried out without any loss of the rifle's accuracy. It was here that the trouble occurred as it was found that as soon as the heat of the barrel turned the grease to oil, which worked into the chamber of the barrel, the bullets began to fly high, as is the case when water gets into the chamber. * The riflemen who had scores spoilt in this manner immediately discarded the use of the lubricant, preferring to chance the nickel trouble as the lesser of the two evils. But, seeing that other men used lots of grease and continued to get good scores, the question arose as to whether the state of the rifling of the barrel should not be taken into consideration with the grease question. Men with new Enfield barrels which have sharp lands, bandied the greased bullets better than those with Metford barrels, which have shallow round lands. This implies that worn barrels do not handle greased bullets as well as the new. One good shot recently was having a run of poor scores. His rifle picked up nickel, so he always used greased bullets. He decided to discontinue the use of the grease, and his scores immediately improved several points. Two other big shots had the same experience. It is possible that had they experimented with reduced amounts of lubricant they might have discovered that they could use a certain amount and get good scores, and at the same time keep the nickel down. There can be little doubt that less lubricant could be used with advantage in the summer, owing to it melting more quickly than in the winter. Rifle men should not only experiment with the quantity to be used but also with the kind, there being several different brands in use.
* note: the Lee Enfield action is very flexible and changes in breech friction create a point of impact change)
AJC1
Member
The bolt thrust increase must have been acceptable while getting the reduced destruction of cases and horrible barrel fowling... never shot one. Only gun I've ever herd to put an oring on the case to prevent chs. Seems like the case chamber arrangement leaves a lot to be desired.Lube your 303 Brit before firing. After firing, bump the shoulder back 0.003", and lube them again before firing.
The Brits had cupro nickle bullets which jacket fouled something awful. However, greasing the bullets prevented jacket fouling. Greasing a bullet will end up with grease in the chamber, which prevents case head separations. Such as:
Greased bullets and cases were very prevalent with SMLE's.
Chronicle Newspaper, 13 Feb 1930 Adelaide Australia
Rifle Shooting - GREASED BULLETS - Chronicle (Adelaide, SA : 1895 - 1954) - 13 Feb 1930
Opinion is so divided on the question of the benefits of using greased bullets that riflemen would be well advised to give the practice a thorough try-out to ...
Rifle Shooting
GREASED BULLETS
Opinion is so divided on the question of the benefits of using greased, bullets that riflemen would be well advised to give the practice a thorough try-out to ascertain if their present method of shooting is giving the best results. This advice applies to those using a lot of lubricant, those using a little, and those who do not use any. There are prominent riflemen who pile the lubricant on the bullet and get good scores; there are others who have been equally as free with the grease and have got very bad scores; and naturally the two parties hold very different opinions on the subject. The greasing of bullets was introduced in an attempt to prevent the nickel of the bullet adhering to the surface of the inside of the barrel when firing was being carried out. The theory that a lubricant would prevent the two metals “sticking” appears quite in order, but this prevention had to be carried out without any loss of the rifle's accuracy. It was here that the trouble occurred as it was found that as soon as the heat of the barrel turned the grease to oil, which worked into the chamber of the barrel, the bullets began to fly high, as is the case when water gets into the chamber. * The riflemen who had scores spoilt in this manner immediately discarded the use of the lubricant, preferring to chance the nickel trouble as the lesser of the two evils. But, seeing that other men used lots of grease and continued to get good scores, the question arose as to whether the state of the rifling of the barrel should not be taken into consideration with the grease question. Men with new Enfield barrels which have sharp lands, bandied the greased bullets better than those with Metford barrels, which have shallow round lands. This implies that worn barrels do not handle greased bullets as well as the new. One good shot recently was having a run of poor scores. His rifle picked up nickel, so he always used greased bullets. He decided to discontinue the use of the grease, and his scores immediately improved several points. Two other big shots had the same experience. It is possible that had they experimented with reduced amounts of lubricant they might have discovered that they could use a certain amount and get good scores, and at the same time keep the nickel down. There can be little doubt that less lubricant could be used with advantage in the summer, owing to it melting more quickly than in the winter. Rifle men should not only experiment with the quantity to be used but also with the kind, there being several different brands in use.
* note: the Lee Enfield action is very flexible and changes in breech friction create a point of impact change)
Nature Boy
Member
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- Apr 21, 2015
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I thought I had you on my ignore list. Let me fix that…..
As long as you are not exceeding maximum pressures, you are not over stressing the action. Actions are designed to carry the full thrust of the cartridge, as maintaining a fixed level of friction is impossible in the field.
rimfires have been greased since the beginning
Machine cannon used case lubrication:
popular lubricated case:
gas lubrication is used on the roller bolts
N555
Member
I have proven heating to less than 900f only introduces more variability.
Blocking me doesn't fix that....
jmorris
Member
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- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,210
If I am setting up the die for use with a given rifle, I use a FL size die to size the case to just fit the chamber, like this.
Setting size die for bolt action rifle.
www.youtube.com
If its for a number of different rifles, I set the die using a case gauge.
I have one rifle that for whatever reason shoots its best with the neck only sized on the portion that holds the bullet, the rest going untouched. Even then I am using a FL die though, because of the tapers, the body simply isn't touched because the die is too high to do so.
N555
Member
The most correct way to bring brass that has multiple firings, unknown numbers of firings back to uniformity is heat fired brass to at least 1,225f, hold for at least 2 seconds, then size it with a full length sizer die with expander ball.
I would actually recommend not annealing 1x factory brass and using a FL neck bushing die or collet die plus body, or neck sizer bushing die plus body die.
But if all you want to run is a FL body die with expander ball for sizing dies probably anneal every time.
Varminterror
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@Captain*kirk - Don't follow this advice. Sizing twice, separately, is an invitation to eccentricity and incongruous case dimensions. In these two step processes, one part of the case is being sized while the opposing part of the case is not supported, it's like squeezing toothpaste around in a tube, the brass can move in ways you may not actually want, and isn't supported to remain concentric to the last step. Bad practice.
Full length sizing with a die well matched to your chamber, especially using a neck diameter (honed or bushing) which enables your desired neck tension, in ONE step is the best method to produce consistent cartridge case dimensions.
AJC1
Member
I agree, and a custom die made with 3x fired brass is the best solution for old guns with crazy chambers....
N555
Member
Yeah my 2 step sized hunting ammo only shoots about 3 inches at 330 yards so it's clearly no good.
jmorris
Member
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- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,210
...or a new benchrest rifle.
Last edited:
Bcwitt
Member
If you just have to neck size, back the FL die out a turn or so. No difference.
I dabbled with neck sizing for a while but when I got multiple rifles in the same cartridge I started to only full length size cases do all the rounds chambered in all the rifles.
Also, I got into a bunch of semi-auto military rifles and found small base sizing gave the best insurance of the rounds chambering in each of my rifles. Accuracy was still good.
22 Hornet for my 22 Hornet Contender carbine is the only round that I neck size. I get a bit longer case life and from my IHMSA Silhouette shooting days, I found my 7mm- Int Rimmed was more accurate in the Contender Super 14 barrel if the body of the cartridge filled the chamber.
Also, I got into a bunch of semi-auto military rifles and found small base sizing gave the best insurance of the rounds chambering in each of my rifles. Accuracy was still good.
22 Hornet for my 22 Hornet Contender carbine is the only round that I neck size. I get a bit longer case life and from my IHMSA Silhouette shooting days, I found my 7mm- Int Rimmed was more accurate in the Contender Super 14 barrel if the body of the cartridge filled the chamber.
FROGO207
Member
This is what I do to my 22Hornet brass for longer case life. One and one half turns out. Works well in my single shot NEF rifle.
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