ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
I have One . . .
Very like that #6 in essential form.
I'll have to dig it up and shoot a pic.
Very like that #6 in essential form.
I'll have to dig it up and shoot a pic.
Bowie knife thread
- Thread starter KiltedClaymore
- Start date
- Status
Which is a "real" Bowie knife? The answer is, it depends.
There's the knife Jim Bowie used at the Sandbar Fight. That has been described as a large butcher knife that his brother Rezin claimed to have made and given to Jim for hunting. Whether Rezin actually forged the blade or blacksmiths Clift or Snowden or Black or ... made it from Rezin's "design" is not established as fact.
There are the knives that were given by Rezin and Jim as "tokens" after Jim Bowie's fame spread. These were made by various cutlers and appear to have evolved in shape and complexity and have various levels of ornateness. Some of the knives that stake a claim may or may not have even come from either of the Bowie brothers. The power of the popular hero status Jim Bowie had motivated any number of people to claim they had a knife that Rezin or Jim gave to them or that the family had inherited.
There are the "commercial" knives that various knifemakers/manufacturers made in the mid 19th C based upon the popular hero status of Jim Bowie.
What does appear to be fact is that Jim Bowie used a pretty simple large "butcher/hunting" knife in the infamous Sandbar Fight in Mississippi. His brother Rezin either made or had it made. Later he used a knife to defend himself against hired killers in TX. That may, or may not, have been Black's knife. After Jim became famous the knife evolved as the brothers had various cutlers make "Bowie knives" to give as tokens to admirers or people they wanted to influence. Whether Jim Bowie carried any one of these evolved patterns for any extended period of time is hotly debated. There's nothing directly from him saying he did or didn't, but there are a whole raft of correspondence from the period indicating he did. There's every reason to think that outside of "polite" society he did. Who the makers of some of these knives that are attributed to the Bowie brothers is also hotly debated by historians and authorities on the knife itself. Searles and Black being the most commonly discussed.
Then there's the 19thC "commercial" Bowie Knives that makers that had no relationship to the Bowie brothers made. These were made in America and Sheffield and played off the notoriety of Jim Bowie and the mythology around him and "Bowie's knife" to fill the demand.
So, depending upon perspective ALL six of those knives are "Bowie Knives" (and that's leaving out all the secondary bowies from "back east" American knife makers and those from Sheffield), but not one of them can be proven to be "the" knife Jim Bowie used at the Sandbar or the Alamo.
See how difficult it gets to be when an iconic item is lost in history and it's characteristics have to be pieced together from old correspondence, oral history, vague newspaper articles, hotly debated opinions of historians and knife experts, and then fight with what "everyone knows".
There's the knife Jim Bowie used at the Sandbar Fight. That has been described as a large butcher knife that his brother Rezin claimed to have made and given to Jim for hunting. Whether Rezin actually forged the blade or blacksmiths Clift or Snowden or Black or ... made it from Rezin's "design" is not established as fact.
There are the knives that were given by Rezin and Jim as "tokens" after Jim Bowie's fame spread. These were made by various cutlers and appear to have evolved in shape and complexity and have various levels of ornateness. Some of the knives that stake a claim may or may not have even come from either of the Bowie brothers. The power of the popular hero status Jim Bowie had motivated any number of people to claim they had a knife that Rezin or Jim gave to them or that the family had inherited.
There are the "commercial" knives that various knifemakers/manufacturers made in the mid 19th C based upon the popular hero status of Jim Bowie.
What does appear to be fact is that Jim Bowie used a pretty simple large "butcher/hunting" knife in the infamous Sandbar Fight in Mississippi. His brother Rezin either made or had it made. Later he used a knife to defend himself against hired killers in TX. That may, or may not, have been Black's knife. After Jim became famous the knife evolved as the brothers had various cutlers make "Bowie knives" to give as tokens to admirers or people they wanted to influence. Whether Jim Bowie carried any one of these evolved patterns for any extended period of time is hotly debated. There's nothing directly from him saying he did or didn't, but there are a whole raft of correspondence from the period indicating he did. There's every reason to think that outside of "polite" society he did. Who the makers of some of these knives that are attributed to the Bowie brothers is also hotly debated by historians and authorities on the knife itself. Searles and Black being the most commonly discussed.
Then there's the 19thC "commercial" Bowie Knives that makers that had no relationship to the Bowie brothers made. These were made in America and Sheffield and played off the notoriety of Jim Bowie and the mythology around him and "Bowie's knife" to fill the demand.
So, depending upon perspective ALL six of those knives are "Bowie Knives" (and that's leaving out all the secondary bowies from "back east" American knife makers and those from Sheffield), but not one of them can be proven to be "the" knife Jim Bowie used at the Sandbar or the Alamo.
See how difficult it gets to be when an iconic item is lost in history and it's characteristics have to be pieced together from old correspondence, oral history, vague newspaper articles, hotly debated opinions of historians and knife experts, and then fight with what "everyone knows".
Last edited:
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,146
How come these Tennesseeans and Wisconsonians know so much about Texas history - suffer from a little Texas envy?
PS,
T'ain't "Texas" history. Remember, Jim Bowie didn't set foot in Texas until he was at least 34 years old (born in KY, moved to TN then MO and grew up in LA) and none of the six Bowie knives shown were made in Texas (mostly MS and AR).
Might want to brush up on that "Texas history" some.
T'ain't "Texas" history. Remember, Jim Bowie didn't set foot in Texas until he was at least 34 years old (born in KY, moved to TN then MO and grew up in LA) and none of the six Bowie knives shown were made in Texas (mostly MS and AR).
Might want to brush up on that "Texas history" some.
The Tourist
member
hso, don't you find it odd that one of the most important figures in Texas history would now be arrested for carrying the same knife (if he did in fact use one) used to establish the state in the first place?
You cannot carry a knife in Texas over 5.5 inches long.
You cannot carry a knife in Texas over 5.5 inches long.
Gunfighter123
Member
TT,
Bowie knives are banned by name in several states due to the attempts to get rid of dueling in the 19thC. Those and "Arkansas Toothpicks".
While ironic, it's not too surprising.
BTW, not too many people know that Jim Bowie swore allegiance to the Spanish crown and to the Mexican government during his lifetime.
Bowie knives are banned by name in several states due to the attempts to get rid of dueling in the 19thC. Those and "Arkansas Toothpicks".
While ironic, it's not too surprising.
BTW, not too many people know that Jim Bowie swore allegiance to the Spanish crown and to the Mexican government during his lifetime.
The Tourist
member
hso said:
Picky, picky.
I swore allegiance to 40 sweaty men in the basement of a motorcycle shop.
It doesn't mean I don't love freedom or feel the tug of gratitude to those who secured it.
Popular lore tells that Jim Bowie died after being bayonetted by several Mexican soldiers after he emptied several pistols.
Ya' gotta love a rogue like that.
Tom Krein
Member
Actually the Arkansas Toothpick historically refered to the Bowie knife.
It has only relatively recently become a term for a double edged dagger or dirk... thanks to Hollywood.
Tom
Wolfman_556
Member
My customized ATC Rogers' Rangers Spike Tomahawk with my BK&T "Hog Hunter" Combat Bowie.
I really like them as a combo.
Claymore1500
Member
I know they are not all "bowies" but they are big.
Wolfman_556
Member
I've had this Camillus "KaBar" forever and it's been a great knife.
RIP Camillus, one of my favorite knife manufacturers of all time
garlicguy
Member
Love them KABARs
The pix in this thread are inspiring me to spend money (that I probably shouldn't but that's never stopped me in the past). My poor wife. Now I'll be shopping around for one of those Marine Corps - lookin' Kabars.
Thanks! (I guess).
Meanwhile, as to hso's comment:
Heck. That's nothin'. You should hear me discuss my toejam, fungus and toenails with my doctor. Now that gets lost in history!
gg
The pix in this thread are inspiring me to spend money (that I probably shouldn't but that's never stopped me in the past). My poor wife. Now I'll be shopping around for one of those Marine Corps - lookin' Kabars.
Thanks! (I guess).
Meanwhile, as to hso's comment:
Heck. That's nothin'. You should hear me discuss my toejam, fungus and toenails with my doctor. Now that gets lost in history!
gg
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,146
OK, finally
I got a pic taken of my small collection of "blades larger than a standard Ka-bar Marine knife" - Cold Steel machete, Cheness Inc. 21" chisa katana (aka ko-katana), crappy but classically-shaped large Bowie that came with my LSI Puma 92 rifle, and British model 1907 long bayo (for SMLEs).
These are pretty crappy compared to what's been posted so far, but hey, I thought I'd play too - someone has to be the "loser".
I consider that 1907 bayo to be just about the best toe-to-toe home defense fighting weapon besides a gun, with the chisa katana a close second place.
P.S. This may be the coolest eye candy thread in this subforum ever. Awesome stuff!
I got a pic taken of my small collection of "blades larger than a standard Ka-bar Marine knife" - Cold Steel machete, Cheness Inc. 21" chisa katana (aka ko-katana), crappy but classically-shaped large Bowie that came with my LSI Puma 92 rifle, and British model 1907 long bayo (for SMLEs).
These are pretty crappy compared to what's been posted so far, but hey, I thought I'd play too - someone has to be the "loser".
I consider that 1907 bayo to be just about the best toe-to-toe home defense fighting weapon besides a gun, with the chisa katana a close second place.
P.S. This may be the coolest eye candy thread in this subforum ever. Awesome stuff!
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hankdatank1362
Member
And Pee Wee Gaskins, that murdering SOB...
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T.R.
Member
This is my KA bar knife. Someone at Ka bar was influenced by James Bowie.
TR
TR
T.R. the folks that designed the USMC Fighting/Utility Knife and USN Mk II took the design of the blade almost directly from the Marbles knife that was commercially available before the war (Marbles even made a submission for the contract). Since there wasn't much agreement on what a Bowie Knife was until the "Iron Mistress" came out (even though almost certainly incorrectly depicted), it's quite unlikely the "KaBar" was inspired by the Bowie.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,146
Anyone got an extra cheap run down Ka-bar for sell? I've got a nice Blackhawk sheath for one, but no knife that fits it.
Eric Draven
Member
Nice bowies Guys....really nice.
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