BP and gun control

[Gaucho Gringo]

Steve

Enjoyed your well written articles on the differences between American and European philosophy and laws. I am surprised you left out another item, "presumed guilt or innocence". In the US a person is considered innocent until proven guilty of a crime or infraction. In Europe the opposite is true. It is harder to prove your innocence when the burden of proof is on you rather than your prosecutor. In the US the prosecutor has to prove you guilty. Just another item of cultural and legal differences between the US and Europe.

 

[hildo]

Gaucho Gringo
I don't think you are quilty in any European country before proven guilty, not in mine anyway. You're nothing more than a suspect and you are free to go if they can't get hard evidence. I know first hand

 

[Tommygunn]

I think Gaucho is refering to the old French Napoleonic Law, where the burden of proof is on the defendant.
The burden of proving the case used to be on the accused.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn this code has been changed or altered so it isn't as harsh as it used to be though.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

If I am wrong I apologize, but when I was in college in the late 60's through early 70'e this is what I was taught in both Law and History of Western Civilization classes. They said the Napoleonic code was the basis for European law with the presumption of guilt on the accused and they took great pains to explain in the US it was different except in the state of Louisiana, which state & local laws are based on the Napoleonic Code.

 

[Steve Swartz]

Gaucho et al:

I think you are both right- the "presumption" is still on the guilt of the defendant; however, the rules and procedures were liberalized in the 70s and 80s to make it more palatable.

Just like doing away with a monarch but retaining the principle of rights/power residing in the state. We may make it easier for you to defend yourself, and allow you limited freedom of action and movement while awaiting trial, but evidentiary rules nad the presumption is that "you wouldn't have been arrested if you were innocent."

Also- forgot to mention one of hte most common ways these philosophies are described:

USA: "That which is not forbidden, is permitted."
ROW: "That which is not permitted, is forbidden."

I am of German ancestry, and I love Germany and the German people- but in many parts of Germany this Rest of World (ROW) philosophy is so deeply embedded in the culture that many citizens [primarily over the age of 30 or so] actually have a deep-seated fear of liberty. Alle es en Ordnung [sorry for spelling/translation] (civil peace and order) is threatened by any hint of liberty; heaven forbid your neighbor plant the wrong color flowers in his flowerpot- Es Verboten!

Anyhow- sorry for continuing off-topic thread/postings here . . . it's that danged Texan Independent streak I guess!

Steve in North texas

 

[O.S.O.K.]

Latest shooting and the police

Well, I have to give the KC police a big KUDOS for the way they handled the shooting in KC at the mall - now being reported on Fox News.

From what I've been able to gather (yes, have to get it from the news), they promptly went after the bad guy and shot him down.

Now this is a different PD than others, so this may just be the KC police executing their department's policy, but regardless, I see this as the very best way that a really bad situation can be handled by law enforcement.

I wish this was the standard way of handling these situations nationwide...