BP firearms designed for self defense

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Well, I know some good blackpowder firearms for self defense and home defense. My Walker, my Pietta Remington '58, My Cattleman's Carbine or my Ubert Pocket .31. Just whichever one I happen to pick up first. I'vd picked a couple of them up before and By God I'll do it again when and if I ever need to. And don't tell me they won't smoke some ass because I know better. Thank you....

 

[Busyhands94]

that is good that you see that cap and ball guns really are deadly if used properly. in the civil war they did not just go home with .44 welts or bruises. a BP revolver is a very formidable weapon. in fact some consider the Colt Walker to be the original .44 magnum. and even a remmy pocket .31 can easily be used to kill if it is loaded properly. sure it's a small package, but a bullet traveling at high velocities is no joke. from what i have heard it can shoot through a 2X4 with a round ball and a full charge.

 

[Mp7]

in a jurisdiction outside the US or in strict states ... if a ML
is all you can have, non-sheeple will use their rights.

i mine - it´s single shot ML ....

the sight of me shouldering a KY longrifle will be a deterrent, i think.

I´m tall. And it´s a Bo-size boomstick.


Of course i´d own a pistol for HD, preferably a 357. revolver.
other than legal it´s hobbyish to not use a modern gun.

(i probably would. Just to do it.)

 

[Busyhands94]

i think anybody looking down the muzzle of a 50 or 62 caliber rifle would rectify their misbehavior and comply. and if they are on PCP or something and chose not to behave the rifle will do the talking for you. i think that huge deep BOOOOOOOOMMMMM.... would make anybody think twice. a Hawkin rifle is not exactly a BB gun. although you could load a handful of BBs into it with a wad and you would have quite an effective scattergun at close range. although for longer ranges the rifling will mess up the pattern. most self defense shootings are at a matter of feet, not yards.

 

[BCRider]

I've often heard '1st time' C&B shooters say how amazed they were by the smoke and flames - often saying something like 'how did folks shooting indoors ever see the target for a second shot' - so I guess that would be a concern. As for setting the home on fire...well, I see your point, but I guess if you are at the point of shooting to protect yourself or family, the 'post-encounter' state of the decor is going to be a secondary concern!

Well that's the best part. You shoot once to hit and a second time to thicken the smoke. Then you sneak your family out the back door using the smoke as a screen....

Seriously? Let's remember that back in the heyday of the C&B revolvers the guns were seen as a secondary weapon and the cutlass or saber was the primarly weapon that lasted well after the palty 5 or 6 rounds were sent on their way. So if you're going to rely on a C&B gun for home defense it really should be sitting next to your trusty saber.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

That is so dumb, at least to me..Oh, yessir! I can just see John Wesley Hardin, James Butler 'hiccup'. William Bonny Atrim, Buckskin Frank Leslie, and all he other hundreds that lived back then all walking around with their cutlasses and swords. Why, who needed that damned ol' .36 or that 1860 Army or that Remington '58?... "S***, just watch this. I'm gonna walk right over there and carve his gizzard out with my trusty ol' cutlass here. Then I'll take one swing and decapitate his unsuspecting ass"....PS..Some of us good ol' boys out here know how to shoot and we don't scare and panic too damned easy....

 

[Remo223]

LOL

Someone is confusing black powder arms with flintlock arms. In the days of single shot flintlock pistols, yes, the cutlass was the primary sidearm.

 

[Busyhands94]

that was back when there were the old fashioned pirates. the "Arrrghhh, Ahoy maytee arm ye' cannons" kind. but in the civil war i suspect that 6 shots of .44 black powder was better than 1 musket ball. the Colt Walker is a big gun. don't quote me on this but i think it was probably the most powerful handgun until the .357 was invented.

 

[Remo223]

They already had the henry rifle in the US civil war. The henry rifle was a large bore rimfire lever action rifle. Revolvers couldn't hold a candle to that. Revolvers were valued because they could be operated one handed while on horseback.

 

[Busyhands94]

i thought they still used muskets back in the civil war. when did they invent the Henry rifle? if i remember correctly a Henry rifle was pretty expensive back then.

 

[Remo223]

1850-ish

they weren't standard military rifles. People took their own personal rifle to war if they could afford something better. They were coveted. The rebels described the henry thus:

"that damned yankee rifle you load on sunday and shoot all week"

 

[Busyhands94]

i think i need to watch some more History channel stuff about the civil war. i don't really watch TV all that often but i like the history channel because they usually have something good on.

 

[Remo223]

There was all kinds of stuff used in the civil war. Muskets probably were used by some people. Remember, the gatling gun was invented during the civil war by the north. This was the very first machine gun.

 

[tdv]

Heck, someone actually advocating bringing an edged weapon to a gunfight? ;-)
I am still amazed how many Civil War vets turned lawman or outlaw, wreaked so much continual havoc with BP firearms and cap and ball revolvers. Even the Mountain Men kept their hides from man and beast alike for years, and under the harshest conditions. These situations far exceed the general home and personal defense scenario even today. Yes the Colt Walker was considered the most powerful handgun of it's era until the arrival of the .357 mag. The .357 mag is still one of the benchmark defense cartridges for lethality on the streets. Progress was made most in reliability and firepower, not as much in pure lethality. A .50 to .58 cal percussion pistol of the type used by men on the frontier, have tremendous balistic value even today. Slow to reload, yet devastating to the recipient of the initial shot. The pure terminal effects rival our magnum center-fire cartridges. Maybe one day we will devise paint ball rounds for BP guns? Imagine a .58 cal, 500 gr paint ball traveling at high velocity, and striking you in the chest. Not many dudes would keep fighting claiming they didn't realize they were hit. Heck, they would be covered in paint as well. Maybe I'm on to something? Cap and ball, "OLD West" style quick-draw contests with .44 cal paintballs! Sign me up, sounds like a lot of fun! BP is about as romantic and nostalgic, as it is effective. Keep on shooting them! tdv

 

[DoubleDeuce 1]

i think anybody looking down the muzzle of a 50 or 62 caliber rifle would rectify their misbehavior and comply. and if they are on PCP or something and chose not to behave

When you mention someone on PCP, that is a whole other animal. Behaving is not on the list of things to do. You can blow chunks off of them, and if they don't feel like complying you will be in for a long haul. Someone on PCP has virtually not threshold for pain. Staring down the barrel of some large caliber firearm, means absolutely nothing.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Were I restricted to muzzleloaders for self or home defense my choice would be either a Remington, Rogers & Spencer, or Ruger revolver. I'd use a max load of 3Fg Triple 7, hot caps, and a dry-lubed wad between a round ball and the powder. I'd also seal the caps and chamber mouths with wax to keep out moisture. I'd also make sure that the loading lever was secure so it doesn't drop and jam the gun. I've had the lever drop when firing my .44 Remingtons, but not with the R&S or Ruger. If necessary I'd put a twist tie around the lever holding it up against the barrel.

If a good BP arm is all you have then it will certainly work. However, going out of your way to choose one when reliable metallic cartridge arms loaded with smokeless powder are available for not much money doesn't make sense. Remember that folks in the 19th Century and earlier used BP guns because they were the only firearms available. Once metallic cartridges and smokeless powder became widely available, people who depended on their guns for sustenance and defense adopted them as soon as they were able.

If I need to defend myself I want the most efficient and reliable weapon available. My goal is to prevent bodily harm to myself and my family. I don't care about style points. I care about survival. I'll choose the arm that serves as the best weapon for the circumstances. For home defense I've settled on a Mossberg 500 12 gauge pump while my wife has a SIG P225 on her side of the bed. For concealed carry I usually choose a Ruger SP-101 or a S&W Model 640, or a Springfield XD9, depending on my attire.

YMMV.

 

[Beach-Crow]

I use my Walker with packed 40 grains of pyrodex topped with two balls. I have the caps sealed with fingernail polish to prevent any danger of hang-fires.

Shooting for a body mass two balls will drop any meth-head warped on tweek. I have done some research on wound channels. It seems that balls like to bounce around and frankly I trust my Walkers ability to knock down and keep 'em down power as much as a 1911's.

My only concern in home defense is over-penetration and I never think about fast reloading. As blood and brains all over the wall where a partner of his was once standing and breathing suddenly changes the idea that I am an easy target to anyone; plus if they want to push the point I have another five cylinders full.

 

[dodo bird]

I will chime in..... I would have no problem at all with a C&B revolver for at home or out and about. They are very intimatating weapon when you see those round balls with the hammer cocked. I would not feel undergunned with one.

 

[45-70 Ranger]

A simple matter of choice I suppose

Dave made a very valid point. And I agree with him 100%. Yes, C&B revolvers and such fell to the wayside rather quickly after cartridge revolvers and such appeared on the scene. Personally I always favored a 4" S&W M29, but I sold all my cartridge handguns over the years after I retired to fund projects. I still have 1/2 dozen C&B revolvers and a couple cartrige long guns. So, for me, if I need a handgun I am restricted to the weapons in this thread. But if I had an old M29, then the choice would be simple....

It is, for me, a matter of choice, as it is for others that have only BP weapons. Yes, they are effective, we all know that. My 2nd Mod Dragoon is a strong weapon and hits hard enough to have killed many hogs with one shot. But if I had my choice in a gunfight (I've been in three as a cop, and did two tours in Viet Nam with the Rangers) I'd use the best killing weapon I have. A nice large frame DA revolver or a 1911 .45ACP would be my first choice...

It is a simple matter of choice....we use what we have...

Wade

 

[Cosmoline]

Forget the little cap and balls. BCrider is correct, they were designed to augment a cavalry rider's saber and war horse. Some used them for pistol fights, but then again some folks hacked foes to death with swords. John Brown springs to mind. The handgun was nowhere near as important in the actual conflicts of that period as the Sillywood Western would have us believe.

To answer the OP's question:

is there any particular BP gun on the market today that is specially designed for self defense?

The English style big bore blunderbuss. That was its primary function, whether for home defense or to prevent the car jacking of the 18th century. And even today, looking at the business end of one, it's difficult to argue against it.

 

[4v50 Gary]

is there any particular BP gun on the market today that is specially designed for self defense?

I do not believe there is any particular BP gun designed or marketed for self-defense today. The exception may be the flintlocks made by the Dogon people who live south of the Sahara. That said, black powder guns have been used to hunt and kill for hundreds of years before the invention of nitrocellulose firearms. The latter is still relatively young.

 

[MCgunner]

i heard once that NAA used to advertise in the manual for their cap and ball revolvers that they can be used for self defense but the ATF forced them to take it out otherwise it could not be sold as an antique.

Not exactly. Someone may have addressed this, didn't read all posts, but NAA used to advertize that you could fire Bullseye (a smokeless) instead of BP. Now, Bullseye wakes up that Super Companion to .22 mag levels, but NAA had to quit advertizing the fact. I shoot nothing, but Bullseye in mine and have carried it. Neat thing about the gun is that if you buy a spare 40 dollar cylinder or two, a reload is quicker than its cartridge firing bretheren. One problem, though, gotta carry it loaded with four, hammer down on a bare nipple. The way the head of the hammer is shaped, there's no safety notches between the cylinders.

 

[mykeal]

is there any particular BP gun on the market today that is specially designed for self defense?

Of course. Several. Any of the .31 cal pocket revolvers and the deringers. They were intended to be carried on the body for personal defense. They certainly weren't intended for issue to troops.

 

[ironhead7544]

I would get the Ruger if I wanted a C&B gun for home defense. Years ago they made an adapter nipple that took a pistol primer. I would look for a set of those too. With caps the plastic retainers would be mandatory for me. I would probably use my Uberti Open Top in 38 Special instead.

 

[MCgunner]

I have NEVER had a percussion cap fail to pop on my ROA. I don't see the need to convert to anything. Just learn how to load and care for black powder and that right there is a big learning curve. Once you're comfy with the care and keeping of black powder firearms, I don't see why a BP gun cannot be effective for self defense if you can conceal it, and hey, that right there is a big problem with an ROA The .31s are handy, have a Remmy replica. But, a Navy with 5.5" barrel could be carried OWB or IWB concealed with proper leather. There's also a Remington 58 on sale for 200 bucks at Cabelas, a Pietta. It's a 5.5" barreled one that would be easier to carry than longer barreled versions.

Now, all that said, I'll stick with my modern .38 and .357 revolvers and my auto pistols, but I'm just sayin' I don't believe BP revolvers are necessarily just toys for the enthusiast. They can be effectively carried for self defense.