BP firearms designed for self defense

[Jaymo]

The Gatling gun was not invented by the North. It was invented by Richard Jordan Gatling of North Carolina. Military Gatling gun use in the war of Northern aggression is largely a Hollywood fabrication. The military brass were not crazy about the idea.
In fact, the Confederacy showed more initiative concerning machine type guns during the war, both in design and use.

 

[Jaymo]

Gatling gun was invented by Richard Jordan Gatling of North Carolina.
Union Brass wasn't enamored of the idea.
The Confederacy showed great initiative in machine type gun design and use. They also had the most powerful, best artillery gun in the world at the time. It was the Brooke gun and it was recognized domestically and internationally as the best there was. It had twice the range of the Parrott gun. It was cast of semi-steel, not cast iron as Wikipedia has incorrectly stated. The multiple wrought iron bands were used because of the strength and resistance to fracturing compared to cast iron. Not because there were no foundries in the South that could cast the bands. Cast iron bands are brittle, wrought iron bands are not.
The Brooke would be a great self defense gun. A little difficult to limber, but it gives a guaranteed one shot stop, regardless of what drugs are in the bloodstream of the violent felon.

For a CC gun, I'd prefer a large bore, centerfire revolver or auto. Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special, or one of many available .45 ACP compact autos would do the job.
I'd really like to see a small DA revolver the size of the old breaktop H&R/IJ/S&W .38 S&W Long "Suicide Specials", except that I want it chambered in 9mm Makarov. 5 or 6 shot. Break top or swing out cylinder. Small, short, light, handy. I could get excited about one.

I don't exactly feel naked when I'm carrying my Howdah or Pietta 58 Rems, though. True, I only carry them when I'm shooting them, but I feel pretty well protected by them, especially after having shot them a few times. They hit pretty hard.

 

[BHP FAN]

Jaymo's right...case in point, the Williams gun.Not really a ''machine gun'' by our standards, but an 1 1/2'' hand cranked rapid fire cannon, no magazine, but a gunners assistand dropped in rounds each time the gunner cranked the breach open, and it could fire rapidly enough that it could sieze up from the heat, and the metal expanding.

 

[Busyhands94]

when i started this thread i was meaning a firearm that is produced today for the purpose of self defense, i know that BP firearms in the past were the only guns you could use for self defense, however other than the NAA companion cap n' ball is there any other guns?

 

[ElvinWarrior]

As far as I am concerned, NOTHING beats a scattergun for home defense. As you know, it fires out a "cone" of shot proceeding out from the barrel muzzle, so, just point anywhere in the general direction and you will nail whats in the way. You can also, in a pinch, load them with just about anything on hand, tacks, bits of old snipped up tin cans, pebbles, snipped up short lengths of small jewelry type chain, whatever fits down the barrel. Just don't overload the gun, and you will be fine.

In the old days, some people loaded them with non-lethal but very painful loads, such as rock salt... OWIE !!!, For those pesky neighbor kids that snuk into the fields to steal thier apples or cherries, or whatevers... (Back in the day when kids expected to receive punishment for misbehaving, and parents regularly delegated it out.)

So my advice to you, is get a scatter gun, available from numberous sources, either in a smooth bore large caliber pistol, or, a an actual single or double barreled shotgun.

Here is a helpful little chart for figuring out Gauge sizes by Caliber.

Gauge Milimeters Caliber
-----------------------------
06..... 23.3......... 0.92
10..... 19.7......... 0.77
12..... 18.5......... 0.73
14..... 17.6......... 0.69
16..... 16.8......... 0.66
20..... 15.6......... 0.615
24..... 14.7......... 0.58
28..... 14.0......... 0.55
32..... 13.4......... 0.526











Or... if you want something a little more modern, and compact, take a gander at this little jewel, it is made of pure surgical stainless steel, comes with all the nifty little accessories, shown below, and is available in either a standard 22 caliber version, $215.00, or a magnum 22 calliber version, $235.00 both are 5 shot, single action revolvers.

http://www.northamericanarms.com/naac&b.html

Quote:
The NAA Companion is available for sale without going through an FFL Dealer in the United States because it is a black powder firearm. However, you will need to fill out and send us the Cap and Ball Waiver form below (under Quick Links) if your residence is in:
District of Columbia, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, or Washington

Sincerely,

ElvinWarrior... aka... David, "EW"

 

[Busyhands94]

i actually have one of the NAA super companions coming to me in the mail from Midwest hunter's outlet. however the gun is on backorder status :banghead: and to be honest i don't want to wait forever to get my freakin gun. this is taking so long.

 

[4v50 Gary]

The Gatling gun was not invented by the North. It was invented by Richard Jordan Gatling of North Carolina. Military Gatling gun use in the war of Northern aggression is largely a Hollywood fabrication. The military brass were not crazy about the idea. In fact, the Confederacy showed more initiative concerning machine type guns during the war, both in design and use.

However, while Dr. Richard Gatling may have been a southron by birth, he was in the nawth and had it produced in the nawth. Beast Butler bought a couple and is reputed to have fired on the Corn-feds. It seems he was not happy about being penned up in the Bermuda Hundred by them. One of the newspapers in New Yawk city also bought one and had it placed menacingly facing the street to deter the draft rioters from burning down their building (it worked).

The Southerners did develop a revolving cannon which looked like an overgrown revolver. It still exists today and may be seen at the Siege Museum in Petersburg, Virginia.

Getting back to the original question, my choice of self defense firearm would be a 5 1/2 inch barrel fixed sight Ruger Old Army. You can leave it loaded with all six cylinders and because of its design, you can leave the hammer down on one of those safety notches. Alternatively, you can cheat and put one of those 45 LC cylinders in it for faster reloading ability.

 

[batjka]

Busyhands,

The only other modern BP gun that is compact, light enough, and has a great deal of power is FMJ BP derringer. They come in either single shot or SxS and are in .45 cal. You can pick one up for about $130. And it fits in the pocket. These pistols are pretty rough-looking, but are pretty much indestructible. There were some threads on this in this and other forums. The BP FMJ (or Cobray, they are the same company) is identical to their cartridge version, just loads differently. There are a few youtube videos showing a regular FMJ derringer, just to give you an idea.

 

[arcticap]

There's a used single barrel Cobray Derringer for sale on Gunbroker with an opening bid of $49.99. These are break action with a .451 rifled barrel, a sliding safety button, a removable breech plug, and the latest version uses a 209 primer. I'm not sure about which ignition the one being auctioned has.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=224346890

 

[Busyhands94]

i like those Cobray derringers, i might have to get one someday! preferably a side by side BP derringer.

 

[Jaymo]

Scattergun, scattergun, scattergun. My go-to home defense gun is a mossberg 590 12 gauge pump.
I pray to God that I NEVER have to shoot anyone. However, I'm realistic enough to know that I bear responsibility to protect my family should the need arise.

A .45-70 Gatling would be an effective anti-home invasion device. A bit messy, though.

Heck with it, just go to Home Depot and buy a chainsaw. Worked for Bruce Campbell in the Evil Dead movies. And we all know that Hollywierd is just like real life

I certainly can't argue against the ROA or 58 Rem.

If you're old enough to buy a BP gun, you're old enough to buy a 12 gauge pump.

 

[Busyhands94]

i am thinking about getting an 1851 navy in .44 caliber, they seem to be within my price range! and besides, brass looks so sweet on guns!

 

[ElvinWarrior]

The only problem with a BP scattergun is trying to explain to the cops, after the fact, why you reloaded and pumped 6 more loads into the guy, when, you nailed him solid with two blasts right from the start.

"Well, officier, he kept twitching on the ground... I thought he was going for a gun or something !!!"

LOL !!!

Sincerely,

ElvinWarrior... aka... David, "EW"

 

[tdv]

Does anyone know the laws for carrying a BP gun concealed. I have a license for CCW. Here in NC, there are laws about the length of a concealed knife. Although it is rarely enforced and frequently violated. Since most states don't regulate BP guns, I am wondering if laws prohibit their carry concealed? I imagine if you use deadly force with one, lawyers would pull out all sorts of stuff. I have a few buddies who teach CCW classes, but there is no concensus on how BP are regulated for concealed carry.
But like the BP shotgun, you can legally purcahse and own one sawed off...like the Howdah. So the laws for BP guns are favorable. Thoughts?

 

[nalioth]

If the BP gun is loaded, it's considered a "deadly weapon" in most states, and "deadly weapons" are regulated.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Nalioth is correct. Muzzleloaders are not Federally regulated for the purposes of transfer. Some states treat them differently, e.g., New York and New Jersey, and regulate them similarly to breech loading guns.

I cannot think of a state in which a muzzleloader would not be classed as a weapon if used or carried as such.

 

[damoc]

i shoot much more with my black powder than my other firearms so it has
become natural to grab as a home and farm defense.

i dont feel i need more power than what i get out of my pietta 58
and i can reload quicker using the spare cylindars than i can
reloading my rugar blackhawk in 45 colt.

the 45 colt conversion for the pietta gives me another option as well

 

[tdv]

That is what I assumed, yet in my state of residence, few laws are specifically oriented to BP firearms. No debate that use of a BP firearm even in self defense would be considered use of a deadly weapon. From a legal standing, it is best to consider BP guns as any other firearm. I'm certain the courts will.

 

[Jaymo]

EW, I wouldn't reload and fire six more times with the Howdah. If the 2 Howda barrels don't do the job, I have 2 58 Rem Piettas and a 51 Navy Pietta. 2 Bbls of Ball/Buck/Buck&Ball + 12 .44 balls + 6 .36 balls should stop the most determined intruder.
If not, he'd be so weighed down by all that lead that I could outrun him.
I reiterate, I pray to God I NEVER have to shoot anyone for any reason. I am prepared to defend myself and my family if necessary. I just hope it never becomes necessary.

 

[ElvinWarrior]

Jaymo, I was joking, I wasn't serious.

I have been in two situations so far in my life where it was absolutely necessary to pull out my 44 BP pistol and fire. But, I fired into the ground, right in front of their feet, and they stopped dead in their tracks.

Then I cocked the gun again, they heard it, and I yelled at him, (In both instances this was out in the open, and they were about 10 feet away)... "One more step in my direction, and the next one puts a 1/2" hole right through your head !!!"

Thankfullly, both times, they turned and ran, and l didn't have to actually shoot them.

Like you, I hope I never have to shoot anyone, living with all the aftermath would be hell I am sure.

In both of my cases, they were a little over 10 feet from me when I came to the realization they had severe bodily harm on their minds, and I had a little time, and a little distance, to get off a warning shot, with my 44 BP revolver belching flames and smoke.

Had they been closer, and rushed me, well, I would have done what I felt I must do.

There was one scene, with Mel Gibson, from the movie, "The Patriot", Which I am sure is every BP Flinters fav movie these days. Well, Mel is planning his revenge against the Colnell who had shot and killed his young son... He had been carrying around with him, a lead soldier, that had belonged to his son, and melted it, and cast it into a ball. When he came across the Colnell on the battlefield, he loaded his pistol with that ball, and fired, hitting the Colnell in the shoulder. If I ever have to shoot someone, ever, I will be thinking of that scene, that moment, where that father was seeking his revenge on one hand, and, protecting his remaining children with the other. A very poignant moment in that film, indeed.



Sincerely,

ElvinWarrior... aka... David, "EW"

 

[Sam Cade]

If I ever have to shoot someone, ever, I will be thinking of that scene,

I really hope not.

 

[Busyhands94]

i think i might have to see that movie sometime! although children's toys made from cast lead... kids put stuff in their mouth all the time, so that is probably not the wisest choice of materials to make toy soldiers out of! haha!

 

[Jaymo]

EW, that movie was an instant favorite. I watched it 5 times in a row on pay per view. I have it on DVD.
I've had to pull my pistol on 3 occasions. I've been lucky, in that I've never had to fire it..

 

[Busyhands94]

i hope i never have to shoot anybody, however i will do it if someone is endangering the life of anybody i love. was it hard to get your weapon out on the 3 occasions you drew it? i mean from all the stressfulness and the adrenaline?

 

[tdv]

Busyhands94...I recommend a Pietta Rem 1858, with a 5 1/2" barrel. Also with a spare cylinder.
Cabelas carries them, including the leather pouch to carry the cylinder. I carry mine in a cross-draw holster. It shoots great and is well made. It is much quicker to reload than the 1851 you mentioned you may buy. Cabelas also sells the 1851 in a 5 1/2" barrel configuration. Another reason I prefer the 1858 over the 1851 is that they shoot closer to point of aim. Maybe you just have to have one of each! Good shooting!