Brass and Primers
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Sounds like you're off to a good start. I use 150 hot core bullets in the wife's .308 and a few other .30 cals I shoot occasionally. Good accurate bullet and good results on deer sized game. I do use the 145 GS in my .280 for deer, primarily to limit meat damage, but have no doubt the HC would drop them dead also.
You've gotten some good advice on here, just some of these guys should be selling reloading equipment. Sounds like you have what you need. Only other thing I would add is read the "how-to" chapters in your Lyman manual a few times over before you start anything, then read them again after you've successfully loaded some ammunition and solved a few problems of your own. Good shooting!
You've gotten some good advice on here, just some of these guys should be selling reloading equipment. Sounds like you have what you need. Only other thing I would add is read the "how-to" chapters in your Lyman manual a few times over before you start anything, then read them again after you've successfully loaded some ammunition and solved a few problems of your own. Good shooting!
Doc7
Member
I unloaded all my boxes last evening and this morning. Apparently, for my birthday in Feb 2016, I also received a primer pocket deburring tool (Lyman) and a primer pocket uniformer.
I also set up a notebook with loads written out (using OCW methodology) for the first loads of 7mm-08 I will create after I get the rest of my stuff as this month of February goes on.
Nosler 120 gr ballistic tip
IMR 4895 Start 39.6 grs Max 44
Varget Start 41 Max 45
Speer 145 gr HotCor
IMR 4895 Start 37.5 Max 41.7
Varget Start 37.2 Max 41.3
Utilized data from Hodgdon Website, Speer and Nosler websites to come up with max and start (if > 90% max).
I am hoping I end with a "hunting accuracy" load with the 120 and a "more accurate than I can shoot" load with the 145, for cheaper target shooting.
One thing I am wondering. I will not be exceeding max loads. How is everyone using 45 Grains of Varget with a 120 NBT, if that is the Max Load? It seems to me that you wouldn't end up using a load that was the max, because for all you know at 45.1 grains accuracy goes to hell, so wouldn't that mean you have no idea if you're at the very edge of teetering into an inaccurate node? I am not sure how the Ladder test method works, but I know on the OCW method, you pick a load that was in the middle of the most similar POI groups. By its nature, that means you couldn't possible settle on the Max load as your final load. However, maybe this stems to the OCW methodology including going slightly over Max, which as a new reloader I certainly will not be doing.
I also set up a notebook with loads written out (using OCW methodology) for the first loads of 7mm-08 I will create after I get the rest of my stuff as this month of February goes on.
Nosler 120 gr ballistic tip
IMR 4895 Start 39.6 grs Max 44
Varget Start 41 Max 45
Speer 145 gr HotCor
IMR 4895 Start 37.5 Max 41.7
Varget Start 37.2 Max 41.3
Utilized data from Hodgdon Website, Speer and Nosler websites to come up with max and start (if > 90% max).
I am hoping I end with a "hunting accuracy" load with the 120 and a "more accurate than I can shoot" load with the 145, for cheaper target shooting.
One thing I am wondering. I will not be exceeding max loads. How is everyone using 45 Grains of Varget with a 120 NBT, if that is the Max Load? It seems to me that you wouldn't end up using a load that was the max, because for all you know at 45.1 grains accuracy goes to hell, so wouldn't that mean you have no idea if you're at the very edge of teetering into an inaccurate node? I am not sure how the Ladder test method works, but I know on the OCW method, you pick a load that was in the middle of the most similar POI groups. By its nature, that means you couldn't possible settle on the Max load as your final load. However, maybe this stems to the OCW methodology including going slightly over Max, which as a new reloader I certainly will not be doing.
forty_caliber
Member
When you get time, take a look at this YT channel. Sam provides a great series about developing a precision load. The topics surround matching a hand loaded round to a specific rifle as opposed to a "general" round produced for any rifle.
.40
.40
Toprudder
Member
Good info there. The only difference of opinion I have is about neck turning. With the setup I have, I can turn the neck in the same amount of time it takes him to check the necks. And in the experiment that I ran, turned vs not turned, I did see a significant difference in extreme spread. But, I did not start with Lapua brass.
Doc7
Member
Well, phooey.
My order was delayed a day or two as I hadnt ordered from Brownells since I changed states so they wanted verbal confirmation of my order as a precaution that it wasn’t a fraudulent charge I guess. I just got notified that my 1 Lb Varget is backordered.
I have since added 150 grain Matchkings and 150 grain ELD-X to my wish list along with the 145 Hotcor and 120 Ballistic Tips. Think I will have plenty of accuracy testing to perform. Looking at the ar15.com “MOA all day challenge” and now that I have a Limbsaver on my T3 Lite has me real excited to start shooting more than my annual sight in.
My order was delayed a day or two as I hadnt ordered from Brownells since I changed states so they wanted verbal confirmation of my order as a precaution that it wasn’t a fraudulent charge I guess. I just got notified that my 1 Lb Varget is backordered.
I have since added 150 grain Matchkings and 150 grain ELD-X to my wish list along with the 145 Hotcor and 120 Ballistic Tips. Think I will have plenty of accuracy testing to perform. Looking at the ar15.com “MOA all day challenge” and now that I have a Limbsaver on my T3 Lite has me real excited to start shooting more than my annual sight in.
Can't fuss too much, that's a good thing really, just frustrating about the delay. Should only happen the once though.
Doc7
Member
Oh I agree. Hope Varget is in stock again soon.
Now I guess my next concern is, as someone who isn't a practiced shooter (although I can whoop an Appleseed event with iron sights at 25M, the standard there is 4MOA, a little different than what we’re after developing a load) is that it will probably be fairly difficult for me to identify good loads at first.
What I need to keep in mind is that I am paying a lot less for each trigger pull (and thus getting more practice for my dollar), than I would buying factory ammo of equally unknown accuracy potential, so even if I have trouble discerning good from great loads, it’s not like I should throw up my hands and say “I’ll just go back to buying Federal Fusion!” For a dollar plus a shot. Once the capital cost on reloading is already spent as in my case, it’s always worth it to load your own, not like I am wasting extra money trying to develop accurate loads even if I might not be an expert precision rifle shot. If anything, every 6 months or so I can attempt another load workup to see if my improved skills have reached the point where I can notice a big difference between different bullets or powders and charge weights.
Doc7
Member
Hello all,
I am going to buy 2 more bullet types and another powder so as to have a complete setup of possible test loads.
120 NBt, 145 Speer HotCor, 150 Hornady ELD-X, and 150 Sierra Matchkings.
Looking at Hodgdons burn rate chart,
https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/burn-rate-color.pdf
I already have IMR4895 and Varget purchased, these are respectively #91 and #102. Seems like RL15 is in the middle, so I think I would be better served by selecting between a 3rd slower class to get a full range of powder choices, meaning : IMR4350, H4350, or Reloder 17 (which are #115, 117, and 118 on the burn rate chart). All 3 powders are in stock at my LGS.
Any preference or any of the 3 is ok? Maybe just go with the cheapest per pound if I shouldn’t expect a difference.
3 powders and 4 bullets ought to keep me very busy! Maybe I’ll end up with an accuracy load, a lower cost practice load, and a hunting load... then on to buying the bigger jugs of powder!
I am going to buy 2 more bullet types and another powder so as to have a complete setup of possible test loads.
120 NBt, 145 Speer HotCor, 150 Hornady ELD-X, and 150 Sierra Matchkings.
Looking at Hodgdons burn rate chart,
https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/burn-rate-color.pdf
I already have IMR4895 and Varget purchased, these are respectively #91 and #102. Seems like RL15 is in the middle, so I think I would be better served by selecting between a 3rd slower class to get a full range of powder choices, meaning : IMR4350, H4350, or Reloder 17 (which are #115, 117, and 118 on the burn rate chart). All 3 powders are in stock at my LGS.
Any preference or any of the 3 is ok? Maybe just go with the cheapest per pound if I shouldn’t expect a difference.
3 powders and 4 bullets ought to keep me very busy! Maybe I’ll end up with an accuracy load, a lower cost practice load, and a hunting load... then on to buying the bigger jugs of powder!
Blue68f100
Member
I would stick to temp stable powders if it were me.
Doc7
Member
I’ll go with the H4350. Seems very popular in match circuits as well.
I am a bit worried that apparently Federal Lr 9 1/2 primers aren’t very popular but oh well!
Midway has great birthday pricing so I will be making orders. Many of my items are 10-15 percent off. For example the Redding dies are down to $40 which is over 20% off.
I am a bit worried that apparently Federal Lr 9 1/2 primers aren’t very popular but oh well!
Midway has great birthday pricing so I will be making orders. Many of my items are 10-15 percent off. For example the Redding dies are down to $40 which is over 20% off.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Happy Birthday wishes. Mine was Feb 7th. Anyway Federal does not make a 9 1/2 primer. Remington makes a #9 1/2 large rifle primer. Federal Large Rifle is a #210.
Ron
Doc7
Member
Right sorry, Remington 9 1/2 is what I bought. It is what was listed on most of the load recipes in my Lyman 49 and the bullet manufacturers I looked at which I why I got it.
Doc7
Member
I don’t know when to start a new thread or keep it all in one, obviously I’m beyond my OP at this point but I don’t want multiple threads going on the same forum.
I have checked, checked, and rechecked what to use as a Max load for the following combos. 3 powders and 3 bullets is nine combos but what I did for now is pick 6, seems a little crazy to load 9 combos x 18-20 rounds each before I’ve ever even shot my first reload. Especially reading the threads about people and their first reloads makes me think I might not get any productive testing my first time out, as I am the average guy and it seems like the average guy gets pretty nervous his first time touching off his own rounds!
There are some different maxes on Hodgdon data and bullet data, the biggest delta I have noticed is IMR 4895 for a 145 Speer HotCor, Speer says 41 grain and Hodgdon site says 42.5 grains.
I have learned also that Speer 145 bullet calls for a 2.730” COAL (on Speer site and Hodgdon site) whereas my 120 NBT and 150 SMK both call for the Lyman drawing 2.800”. That is how I should load them up correct?
Here are my starting through Max loads I plan to go out for my first tests. This is intended to give me a wide variety of flavors in terms of bullet weights and powders, so I have a good sense of what the rifle likes. Also, to get Sierra loads I’ll have to buy the book, so I only have one source of data for them (hodgdon website).
I will probably pick a starting weight charge of one of these, and load up a box of that - to get my first time jitters out of the way and not try for serious testing my first time out.
7mm-08
120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip
with IMR 4895 2.800”
Start 39 Max 43
With Varget
Start 40.8 Max 45
145 Grain Speer HotCor
With IMR 4895 2.730”
Start 38.5 Max 42.5
With Varget
Start 37.6 Max 41.5
150 Grain Sierra MatchKing
With Varget 2.800”
Start 37.4 Max 41.3
With H4350
Start 41.1 Max 45.4
Any issues there? This ought to be my last question before I load my first rounds, I’ll probably document the first several rounds and post up a description of what I did before I load 6 boxes worth!
I have checked, checked, and rechecked what to use as a Max load for the following combos. 3 powders and 3 bullets is nine combos but what I did for now is pick 6, seems a little crazy to load 9 combos x 18-20 rounds each before I’ve ever even shot my first reload. Especially reading the threads about people and their first reloads makes me think I might not get any productive testing my first time out, as I am the average guy and it seems like the average guy gets pretty nervous his first time touching off his own rounds!
There are some different maxes on Hodgdon data and bullet data, the biggest delta I have noticed is IMR 4895 for a 145 Speer HotCor, Speer says 41 grain and Hodgdon site says 42.5 grains.
I have learned also that Speer 145 bullet calls for a 2.730” COAL (on Speer site and Hodgdon site) whereas my 120 NBT and 150 SMK both call for the Lyman drawing 2.800”. That is how I should load them up correct?
Here are my starting through Max loads I plan to go out for my first tests. This is intended to give me a wide variety of flavors in terms of bullet weights and powders, so I have a good sense of what the rifle likes. Also, to get Sierra loads I’ll have to buy the book, so I only have one source of data for them (hodgdon website).
I will probably pick a starting weight charge of one of these, and load up a box of that - to get my first time jitters out of the way and not try for serious testing my first time out.
7mm-08
120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip
with IMR 4895 2.800”
Start 39 Max 43
With Varget
Start 40.8 Max 45
145 Grain Speer HotCor
With IMR 4895 2.730”
Start 38.5 Max 42.5
With Varget
Start 37.6 Max 41.5
150 Grain Sierra MatchKing
With Varget 2.800”
Start 37.4 Max 41.3
With H4350
Start 41.1 Max 45.4
Any issues there? This ought to be my last question before I load my first rounds, I’ll probably document the first several rounds and post up a description of what I did before I load 6 boxes worth!
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Load data as you have discovered is kind of subjective. Seldom do we find two manuals which totally agree. This is why we "work up" a load starting low and working up noting the accuracy and more important looking for signs of excessive pressure. What we see in most load manuals is the data a powder manufacturer or bullet manufacturer got on a given day with a given set of conditions including a test rifle or test fixture. If the loads you posted are close to Start loads you should be fine. It's like starting in the shallow end of the pool.
Just off the cuff as I have a Sierra 50th Anniversary reloading manual sitting here. 7mm-08 Remington with either a 150 grain Match King HPBT and a cartridge OAL of 2.800" using Varget I am seeing a Start of 32.5 grains and a Max Load of 42.9 grains. Their test rifle was a 24" barrel 1:9 Twist Remington 700 using a Rem 9 1/2 LRP. That covers 2300 to 2800 FPS velocity. Your Max is below Sierra's max. They don't list H 4350 but do list IMR 4350 and AA 4350 so go figure.
On your 145 grain Speer. The Speer #12 Manual reflects IMR 4895 about what you have Start 37.0 grains and a Max of 41.0 grains. They don't mention Varget. They also only list 7mm BT Spitz SP 2.730", 7mm Spitz SP 2.730", 7mm BT HP Match 2.800" and their 7mm GS (Grand Slam)SP 2.775".
Just start low with the loads you posted and you should be fine. Check your charges frequently. You will do just fine.
Ron
Just off the cuff as I have a Sierra 50th Anniversary reloading manual sitting here. 7mm-08 Remington with either a 150 grain Match King HPBT and a cartridge OAL of 2.800" using Varget I am seeing a Start of 32.5 grains and a Max Load of 42.9 grains. Their test rifle was a 24" barrel 1:9 Twist Remington 700 using a Rem 9 1/2 LRP. That covers 2300 to 2800 FPS velocity. Your Max is below Sierra's max. They don't list H 4350 but do list IMR 4350 and AA 4350 so go figure.
On your 145 grain Speer. The Speer #12 Manual reflects IMR 4895 about what you have Start 37.0 grains and a Max of 41.0 grains. They don't mention Varget. They also only list 7mm BT Spitz SP 2.730", 7mm Spitz SP 2.730", 7mm BT HP Match 2.800" and their 7mm GS (Grand Slam)SP 2.775".
Just start low with the loads you posted and you should be fine. Check your charges frequently. You will do just fine.
Ron
Doc7
Member
Thanks very much. On second thought I am going to stick with my 2 original bullets and 2 powders at first.
Keep it real simple and find my first good whitetail “home brew” load.
120 NBTs, 145 Speer Hotcors, IMR-4895 and Varget. I will virtually guarantee walking away with a “good enough” load my first time or two out at the range with these, a small success to kick it off.
Keep it real simple and find my first good whitetail “home brew” load.
120 NBTs, 145 Speer Hotcors, IMR-4895 and Varget. I will virtually guarantee walking away with a “good enough” load my first time or two out at the range with these, a small success to kick it off.
Toprudder
Member
Birthday wishes from me as well. My b’day is also Feb 7, and my dad’s was the 6th. We just threw a party for him, it was his 90th.
I already took advantage of my birthday pricing at Midway, and was able to combine it with the free shipping as well.
Doc7
Member
I made my first handloads today! Going to shoot them tomrorow.
I took my 200 Starline brass and :
-tumbled
- primer pocket uniformer
- FL sized with Redding dies
- trimmed to 2.025”, chamfer and debur
- flash hole uniformer
- tumbled
- loaded 24 rounds in incremental charges of my 145 Hotcors and IMR-4895
Now I am wondering what to do with my mixed head stamp brass (125 rounds of Federal and Hornady) now that I have all this starline!
I took my 200 Starline brass and :
-tumbled
- primer pocket uniformer
- FL sized with Redding dies
- trimmed to 2.025”, chamfer and debur
- flash hole uniformer
- tumbled
- loaded 24 rounds in incremental charges of my 145 Hotcors and IMR-4895
Now I am wondering what to do with my mixed head stamp brass (125 rounds of Federal and Hornady) now that I have all this starline!
Attachments
1976B.L.Johns.
Member
I would find a load that works for you and load 'em!
Dudedog
Contributing Member
Some good info here
http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html
http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html
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