Break-In for Tight Semi's (Kahr PM9) ?

[mbt2001]

I fire 500 rnds through any auto I get before I consider it reliable. I guess as long as you fire 200+ you are good. Auto's do need to wear in some, because the tolerances are tight. Maybe it will function flawlessly out of the box, but shooting is fun and practice is vital.

 

[Cards81fan]

If it doesn't work 100% right out of the box then it should never have been stuck in a box and shipped out. I still can't believe how many people buy into this idea. It's not a small block Chevy. It's a handgun.

This. I would fire some rounds through it to ensure it is reliable (for my own piece of mind), but I don't agree that this should be some procedure to ensure the gun is "broken in" and it will not function properly otherwise.

I like Larry Seecamp's words on the matter:

Exactly what does a break in period mean?

It suggests we gun manufacturers send out pistols we know don’t work reliably out of the box, and that our expectation is the burrs and friction spots that should have been polished out at the factory will be taken care of by the customer popping off a few hundred rounds.

In my opinion, break in periods are pure BS. In the first place, if the pistol doesn’t work straight out of the box it’s not likely to work any better after a few hundred rounds. It’s just wasted ammo trying to fix a defective gun by shooting it ~ sort of like trying to get rid of backfires in a car by driving more miles.

If you have problems with your pistol and I tell you to shoot some more rounds to break the gun in, maybe I’m just blowing you off so you’ll either put the gun in a closet or dump it on someone else. If I blame you, the customer, for a factory problem, maybe I won’t hear from you again. The same applies to limp wristing, which actually can be a real problem but also is an easy way also to blame customers for factory defects.

Semi autos ought to work straight out of the box with no break in period. I never understood the mythical break in period. I’ve worked on some 50,000 guns and crap guns never got better by shooting those pistols more.

If function gets worse with shooting the manufacturer has an excuse. A burr might have kicked up that resulted from an unforeseen circumstance. Similarly, other unforeseen events might have taken place that adversely affect function.

Under no circumstances do I see a legitimate claim to be made that pistols are shipped not ready to be used and that the customer has the responsibility to shoot his gun until the parts get married up to produce something reasonably reliable.

Trigger pulls get better with use. Loading gets easier with use. Function should never get better with use ~ unless the manufacturer is not doing their job.

 

[JK]

tolerances

Guys & Gals,

The term tolerance is thrown around to describe fit.

If you have a 1.000" +/- .001" peg and a 1.002" +/-.001" hole then you have a fit of .000" - .004" and a tolerance of +/-.001" for the parts.

The point is that the parts fit. You don't need to rub them together to make them fit.

A firearm should be made with the class of fit to assure reliable operation.

Salesmen say otherwise. Watch your pennies.

 

[mbt2001]

Metal expands with heat and friction...

 

[Guns and more]

My PM-9 had some mis-feeds until about 50 rounds. After that, no problem.

I always load a few snap caps in a magazine so I can play with a new gun without firing it.
I'm sure that loosens things up too. By the way, the Kahr trigger will reset with the slide moving only about a half inch. You don't need to rack the slide all the way to dry fire.

 

[Lonestar49]

My PM-9 had some mis-feeds until about 50 rounds. After that, no problem.

*I always load a few snap caps in a magazine so I can play with a new gun without firing it.
I'm sure that loosens things up too. By the way, the Kahr trigger will reset with the slide moving only about a half inch. You don't need to rack the slide all the way to dry fire.

...

Once again, I agree, as some guns do require some break-in which unlike many 1911 45's asking for 500 rounds of break-in can be expensive only to find out one way or another if ones gun is good to go, to work, or back to the factory.. not good

But, like above, most only require "some", like my SA EMP needed 300 rounds of FMJ before she would accept JHP's and shoot 100% with them.. no big deal to me, and the EMP has, now, gone just over 6k flawless rounds.. So, if that is what it takes, so be it..

*Also: smart using snap-caps but when you see some of the purple finish coming off, be sure to check both your feed ramp and barrel "chamber" for paint scuffs..

Easy to clean off, but should be chked now and then to be sure no interference/feed jams will occur because of build up of paint scuffing off and adhering to walls with the heat of live ammo.. key

Same with extractor from/roughing edges of snap cap cartridge "rims" and breach-face wall (firing pin wall) i.e paint sticks after much use with snap cap losing finish - purple/dark patches sticking.. via hot live ammo being shot with paint stuck prior.

Luck,


Ls

 

[Racinbob]

I gave my PM9 had a break in period of 380 rounds. Never once did I get a full mag through it without a failure. Called Kahr, sent it back for service on my nickle (make that close to $60.00) since he told me they won't pay for shipping to them. Got it back in less than a week (darn good). Then it had more problems than it did before I sent it in. Sold it at a big loss because I had to tell the dealer about the issues. Never again.

 

[rim]

I ran my PM-9 through 250 rounds on the day I bought it, then ran another 150 a week later...except for not liking Wolf 9mm, all wa well & ready for CCW. Now it's up to 850 and still no issues.

 

[230therapy]

Lots of lube. I used grease on my PM9's since it doesn't go away.

Factory manual says 200 rounds for breakin. I'd do 100, clean, relube, repeat until at least 300.

Then run a magazine or two of your favorite JHP. If those run, it should be fine.

Be aware, though, that I had issues with two Kahr PM9's. I ended up buying a friend's PM9 since it was debugged. I guess Kahr's QC is spotty.

 

[9mmepiphany]

By the way, the Kahr trigger will reset with the slide moving only about a half inch. You don't need to rack the slide all the way to dry fire.

are you sure?

my Kahr doesn't require any movement of the slide to reset...it's DAO

 

[usp9]

are you sure?

my Kahr doesn't require any movement of the slide to reset...it's DAO

Then you have the only Kahr in the world that will do that. It will not reset without moving the slide. Put a snap cap in the chamber, pull the trigger, then pull it again. What happens? Nothing. You have to reset the Pre-cocked striker by retracting the slide a bit in order to re-strike.

Sorry, but the Kahr is not a true DAO.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Sorry, but the Kahr is not a true DAO.

you are of course correct...i have posted the same thing on other occasions...the Kahr does require that the striker be cocked before the DA trigger can be stroked again

i was posting on another thread about a DAK before this one was mis-posted on this one

 

[1eyedwillie]

Many choices out there, so....

Do your research, ask other owners, shoot it if possible, then make the purchase.

There are so many ways to spend your firearm dollars. Only you can decide what is right for you. If you don't want to buy a firearm with a recommended break-in period, then by all means don't.

If you are looking for a pocketable 9mm pistol, the options are reduced. That was what I was looking for when I finally bought my Kahr MK9. I considered the PM9, looked at the Keltec PF9, briefly considered Rohrbaugh (too pricey for me and they only recommend one brand of ammo if I recall correctly).

I read a lot about the PM9 early problems and how now they are (mostly) solved and considered it. However, in the final analysis I went the all metal route with the MK9 even though they recommend the break-in period. When I took delivery I was very impressed with the fit and finish, but I did the 200 round break-in anyway after cleaning and lubing. My particular MK9 gave me no problems whatsoever from round #1. No failures-to-anything.

But, you choose what's right for you. The MK9 or PM9 don't fit the bill for everyone.

 

[Just One Shot]

On guns that are all metal (like the Ruger MK's) I like to use a teflon based lube (after a good cleaning of course) during the initial break in period.

It's a good idea to run a few hundred rounds through it to insure the machined surfaces have started to smooth out and are properly mated.

 

[OregonJohnny]

I now have 475 rounds through my Kahr CW9. It has not had a single malfunction from the get go. No break-in required for function. Things have smoothed out a little, but the slide (recoil spring) is still pretty stiff. It shoots very well, and is much more accurate than I am. On a good day, I shoot it better than many of my full-size pistols and revolvers. It is one of the thinnest 9mm pistols you can buy, and so far, it seems to like any 9mm ammo I put through it.

Really, the only 2 brand-new guns that I've shot that didn't function perfectly out-of-the box were a family member's Taurus PT111 Millenium Pro (sent back to the factory twice, then dumped, never worked right) and a buddy's Kel-Tec P3AT (we both couldn't get a whole magazine through it without a jam). Everything else I've ever shot seemed to just work right, right away.

 

[Ak Guy]

Thanx for all the input. I picked up my new Kahr PM9 yesterday! (And just got back from the range). It had excellent lube from the factory, but I wiped it down good and racked the slide 40-50 times, and re-lubed good, and went to range. Put 80 rnds Federal American Eagle 124gr, and 60 rnds Rem UMC 115 thru it, and it ran 100% perfect! I like it! It's fun to shoot, and no issues w/ sore hand. Both sling-shot and slde release fed fine.

Two "adjustments" I've made: The flush-fit mag had sharp corners on the back of the floorplate which dug into flesh, but Mr. Dremel fixed that.
Secondly, I'd heard some folks had an issue w/ hitting the slde catch w/ their thumb.......it didn't happen to me, but my thumb is really close to it. So I chamfered the bottom edge of the slide catch, and rounded off the back bottom corner to make it even harder to accidently push it up w/ thumb. I think it will be fine.

I really like the little feller. Next I'll run a few mags of carry ammo thru it. (Hopefully that will go equally well). As soon as I get my Mika and Super-fly holsters I'll pick one of them and have a really nifty pocket 9 !!

 

[9mmepiphany]

Secondly, I'd heard some folks had an issue w/ hitting the slde catch w/ their thumb.......it didn't happen to me, but my thumb is really close to it. So I chamfered the bottom edge of the slide catch, and rounded off the back bottom corner to make it even harder to accidently push it up w/ thumb. I think it will be fine.

i found that on my CW9 also, i had it beveled when i had them clean up the trigger

 

[PMROY]

A high end 1911 will work right out of the box. A new 1911 after 1000 rounds should never give you any problems. If you clean and break in as indicated, it will always work better. If work to you is loading 1 magazine, fire then replace mag and repeat , then they all work. If what you need is for the gun to work properly after every mag, quick reloads, quick firing, accurate groups and your life depends on it not jamming when the fresh mag is inserted, I recommend a break in period until no jamming issues at all. A Kimber I have worked fine,OOB, three shots, reload, three more, etc. When I went to full mags, quick shooting, new mag, repeat. it had an infrequent jamming issue until after 1K. Listen to the old timers, sometimes when the manual says something, it's because their lawyers have advised, after testing and real life experience, that to be 99.99 percent sure, the longer the break in period, the more reliable the gun becomes. Also, the longer the break in, the more familiar the owner is with the weapon, what ammo works better and under what conditions. If you have any doubts that it will work perfectly, every time, use it for target practice. If your life depends on it, extend the break in until you are completely comfortable with its operation. This is one time you do not wa

 

[BCC]

AK Guy,

Enjoy your new gun. I have the same (pm9) and it's my favorite little gun. Goes bang all the time and I'm more accurate with it than I am with my other little ones.

When I got it I took it straight from the gun shop, put 200 rounds through it, went home, cleaned it, put 100 rounds of my sd ammo through it the next week and cleaned it again. I think I had a jam once during the 2nd mag, never to be repeated.

Fired it many times since. Nice gun. Trouble free, decent caliber and deadly accurate. Just what I want in a pocket pistol.

My custom 1911 had more issues during the 1st 200 rounds. Course, it's been flawless since. My favorite bigger gun.

I don't get bent about it.

Have fun!

 

[Ak Guy]

Just got back from checking out the PM9 w/ my carry ammo. Shot 50 Gold Dot 124+P, and about 70 Rem UMC just for funs, and he's still 100% perfect! SWEEET !! My original plan for this guy was ONLY for when I just about COULDN'T carry my regular P7M13, or other full-size. But I'm thinking he may see more duty than that if I like the Mika and/or Super-Fly.

BCC.......How do you "pocket-carry" your's ?

 

[Gun Geezer]

Thank you, JK. I guess I should be getting used to it by now, but I'm still constantly amazed by the knee-jerk reactions many people tend to have on web forums and then how vociferously they defend those positions. Do they act this same way in real life?

Anyway ... I happen to be a Kahr owner ... a Beretta owner ... a Springfield owner ... a Kel-Tec owner ... you get the picture. Good guns work out of the box and get better with use.

My Kahr (a CW40), for instance, "worked" out of the box. I warmed it up with about 200 rounds of reloaded ammunition. As it "warmed up," I could feel the slide moving more freely and the trigger becoming easier to pull. Did that mean it didn't work out of the box? Certainly not! Within the first 50 rounds, I managed to shoot a 4" grouping at 15 yards.

I challenge anyone to find any brand new semi-automatic handgun that works as smoothly right out of the box as it does after it's had 1000 rounds run through it. Demonstrate said results, please.

My Colt 1911 series 80 was as smooth and reliable the day I bought it 25 years ago as it is today. But, no I do not have any way to prove it to you.

Still, I agree that 200 to 300 rounds to verify reliability of a carry piece is a wise thing to do.

 

[NinjaFeint]

I bought my PM9 with a few hundred rounds on it, never a hiccup for me. I lube it no more or less than my other guns.