Breaking: Alleged gun trafficker Senator Leland Yee pleads guilty in federal court

[The Exile]

I say hang him, if we actually started holding politicians accountable for their actions; imagine how quickly all our problems vanish into thin air and America comes to embrace the old adage "no news is good news".

I wonder how many people died because this guy sold guns to some very bad men.

 

[Frank Ettin]

And as for the miniscule facts that are available listed above..? Do they suggest two counts of racketeering, or something more significant?

"You're entitled to your opinion, but having participated in a fair amount of major litigation I know it's hogwash"
Well clearly, if Yee's crimes are equivalent to two ARs without a bullet button, this major litigation is pure hogwash.

the bottom line is that you are not qualified to second guess the federal prosecutor here. Your opinion on the subject is meaningless.

 

[Hardtarget]

I've got to ask...where the H*LL is the NRA?
They should be ALL OVER THIS !

No way should this be getting the fluff pass .
Holy cow...if this was any one of us they would be ready to shoot us.

Mark

 

[barnbwt]

"the bottom line is that you are not qualified to second guess the federal prosecutor here. Your opinion on the subject is meaningless."

So your point is I should shut up? Or should I ask for a litany of your case history and education background, just to make sure you aren't equally out of your depth? Smacking me down for merely having an opinion on what my lying eyes behold just because I opted for a different career path than you doesn't strike me as very helpful to my, or anyone else's understanding of in what way I am wrong or off track, here. If I'm so wildly flailing in my reasoning, you could easily ignore me (or censor me), if not actually rebut my points.

As a mod, if you are not comfortable with us discussing details or opinions on legal matters before the action is all over and the facts properly considered in/out of court, you are perfectly capable of ending debate yourself, same as the staff frequently does for needlessly political threads. After all, if none of us can possibly weigh in on this without the benefit of banker boxes full of primary source documents, what is the point of this thread? To derp about "that's anti-gunners for ya?" Mr. Yee was the very picture of the kind of person who would be afforded prosecutorial preference by an anti-gun administration presiding over a highly politicized Justice Department; yes, I find it shocking he was not put through the wringer despite being clearly caught in all sorts of criminal acts. When he gets out after a few years on parole to begin rebuilding his empire as a consultant, then can I object to the prosecution's decision to not press charges that would keep him interred for the remainder?

You've still not weighed in, with your vastly superior understanding of your local states' laws, how a man now admitting to such a large array of crimes may be punished similarly as if I took my two 'assault weapons' three thousand miles west. To be honest, that's the angle to this that I personally find so ridiculous.

TCB

 

[Frank Ettin]

...So your point is I should shut up?...

My point is that you have no basis upon which to criticize the prosecutor's decision to accept the plea deal except your emotional, knee-jerk distaste for Yee and the result.

...As a mod, if you are not comfortable with us discussing details or opinions on legal matters before the action is all over and the facts properly considered in/out of court, you are perfectly capable of ending debate yourself, same as the staff frequently does for needlessly political threads....

Yes I can, and I have not done so in case someone has something reasonable or useful to add.

...You've still not weighed in, with your vastly superior understanding of your local states' laws, how a man now admitting to such a large array of crimes may be punished similarly as if I took my two 'assault weapons' three thousand miles west....

Because I have insufficient, relevant facts upon which to weigh in. Unlike some, such as you, it's not my practice to guess or make assumptions. What I do know from being in the business for a long time is that there is a lot we don't know here and that without that information we're in no position to be critical of the prosecutor's decision.

 

[Moparnut]

I don't understand why we should not be critical of the prosecution in this case. Shouldn't prosecutor's and District attorney's always be scrutinized to make sure they are doing their job in a legal and just manner or should we as a society continue to allow people of a "higher class" get away with these acts and receive ridicously light punishments?

 

[Frank Ettin]

I don't understand why we should not be critical of the prosecution in this case. Shouldn't prosecutor's and District attorney's always be scrutinized to make sure they are doing their job in a legal and just manner ...

Yes but, we also can not possibly have sufficient information to assess whether or not the prosecution's decision in this case to accept a plea deal wasn't a reasonable decision. As I wrote in post 21:

....Do you have any clue what the prosecution's case is like? How strong or weak? Exactly what the evidence against Yee is? How it's likely to play to a jury? How good or poor the prosecution witnesses are? How much a trial would cost, in money, time, and possible disruption of other investigations/prosecutions? What information the prosecution is getting from Yee that could help other significant investigations/prosecution?...

Without that information, there's no way to evaluate the prosecutor's action. Without that information, any criticism can only be based on assumptions and guesses.

 

[danez71]

Attached is the actual plea deal.


Frank, on pg 7 is where the agreement details start. Could you elaborate on lines 6-8?

Also, I didn't (easily) see details of his loss of Rights such as voting and gun. Can you comment to this as well?


After reading more online, 20 yr is max and this is at least in part to him cooperating.


******************
Its one thing to post up "hang'm" and "let him rot in jail".

But its another thing to post completely uninformed opinions as facts. Its a bit disingenuous.

 

[danez71]

My point is that you have no basis upon which to criticize the prosecutor's decision to accept the plea deal except your emotional, knee-jerk distaste for Yee and the result.

Nor is there any basis to takes swipes at an entire State. I suppose its a reflection of character.

 

[rust collector]

there is always much more to the story

Than we read in the papers or a 45 second video clip. The last thing I want to do is invest in a position based upon whatever drivel a media outlet is delivering.

Yes, there is irony in this story. The irony is not really news, however, as we expect politicians to say one thing and do another. Over the years, they have honed these skills to a high level.

What is news is that this individual actually got apprehended, and wasn't able to throw the hook. That gives us reason to hope.

 

[Delmar]

I think Gitmo should leave the light on for him

 

[Lycidas Janwor]

the bottom line is that you are not qualified to second guess the federal prosecutor here. Your opinion on the subject is meaningless.

Wrong, just wrong. Of course our opinions on this subject matter, whether you agree with certain opinions or not is your choice. But Yee is a criminal of the highest order. He's a corrupt politician who is the epitome of hypocrisy and corruption.

 

[Frank Ettin]

the bottom line is that you are not qualified to second guess the federal prosecutor here. Your opinion on the subject is meaningless.

Wrong, just wrong. Of course our opinions on this subject matter, whether you agree with certain opinions or not is your choice. But Yee is a criminal of the highest order. He's a corrupt politician who is the epitome of hypocrisy and corruption.

No, you are wrong. It's true that you're free to have an opinion, but that doesn't mean your opinion is worth anything. All opinions are not equal.

An opinion formed without all the facts, based on assumption and guesses, and formed regarding a highly technical matter without the education or experience to evaluate things really doesn't mean much. As I wrote in post 21:

....Do you have any clue what the prosecution's case is like? How strong or weak? Exactly what the evidence against Yee is? How it's likely to play to a jury? How good or poor the prosecution witnesses are? How much a trial would cost, in money, time, and possible disruption of other investigations/prosecutions? What information the prosecution is getting from Yee that could help other significant investigations/prosecution?...

Without that information, there's no way to evaluate the prosecutor's action whether the prosecutor's decision to accept the plea deal was reasonable.

Your opinion is based on nothing more than your emotional and knee-jerk distaste for Yee.

 

[Lycidas Janwor]

No, you are wrong. It's true that you're free to have an opinion, but that doesn't mean your opinion is worth anything. All opinions are not equal.

An opinion formed without all the facts, based on assumption and guesses, and formed regarding a highly technical matter without the education or experience to evaluate things really doesn't mean much. As I wrote in post 21:

​

Without that information, there's no way to evaluate the prosecutor's action whether the prosecutor's decision to accept the plea deal was reasonable.

Your opinion is based on nothing more than your emotional and knee-jerk distaste for Yee.

We'll just agree to disagree. It's ironic that you are a moderator on a gun forum that is designed around the freedom of expression and consequently, opinions. I understand you're a moderator, but outside of breaking THR rules on posting, you can't silence others opinions on a rather unfortunate case of corruption which directly coincides with the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...It's ironic that you are a moderator on a gun forum that is designed around the freedom of expression and consequently, opinions. I understand you're a moderator, but outside of breaking THR rules on posting, you can't silence others opinions ....

Freedom of expression is fine. You're free to express your opinion, and no one has been prevented from expressing an opinion.

I've merely pointed out that any opinion as to whether or not the prosecutor in the Yee case was reasonable in accepting Yee's plea deal, when formed without all the facts by someone without sufficient qualifications doesn't mean much. And that is an absolutely true statement. All opinions are not equal.

Feel free to express your opinion, but don't expect specious opinions to go unchallenged.

 

[Lycidas Janwor]

Freedom of expression is fine. You're free to express your opinion, and no one has been prevented from expressing an opinion.

I've merely pointed out that any opinion as to whether or not the prosecutor in the Yee case was reasonable in accepting Yee's plea deal, when formed without all the facts by someone without sufficient qualifications doesn't mean much. And that is an absolutely true statement. All opinions are not equal.

Feel free to express your opinion, but don't expect specious opinions to go unchallenged.

My opinion is that the prosecution left a lot on the table. Your opinion is that my opinion does not carry much weight.

Using your logic: You don't know anything about me, or who I am, or what I do for a living, therefore, your opinion about my opinions carry zero weight.

See how that works?

 

[Frank Ettin]

My opinion is that the prosecution left a lot on the table. Your opinion is that my opinion does not carry much weight.

Using your logic: You don't know anything about me, or who I am, or what I do for a living, therefore, your opinion about my opinions carry zero weight.

See how that works?

And I continue to assert that your opinion doesn't carry much weight. Having practiced law for some 30+ years, I know from my professional experience that it's not possible to assess a decision to accept a plea deal or a settlement without all the facts and all the information the lawyer making that decision had; and it would be impossible for anyone here to actually have that all that information.

The prosecutor might have left a lot on the table, but he very well might have had a some good reasons; and without knowing what he knows, we can't reasonably assess that. And while I agree that Yee is a despicable character and "the epitome of hypocrisy and corruption", that still doesn't necessarily mean that accepting the plea deal was the wrong move.

Decision about litigation tactics and strategy must be made dispassionately, based on a thorough and objective evaluation of all the available evidence and applicable law and one's best professional judgment about how the evidence and applicable law will play to the court and jury. Lawyers who make such decisions based on emotion don't get very far.

 

[I6turbo]

We'll just agree to disagree. It's ironic that you are a moderator on a gun forum that is designed around the freedom of expression and consequently, opinions. I understand you're a moderator, but outside of breaking THR rules on posting, you can't silence others opinions on a rather unfortunate case of corruption which directly coincides with the 2nd Amendment.

And they often express it in such an arrogant, prickish way, an they do it here in this place that calls itself The "High Road". Makes The High Road sound like some sort of BS name like the "Affordable" Care Act, or the "SAFE" Act. Come here, agree to our terms, and WE will tell YOU how worthless your opinions are (in our opinions, which are couched just so to skirt the High Road rules, but then we're the moderators, so.... )

And then cap that off with what amounts to an admonition to "trust the government lawyers in cases where you lesser people (non-lawyers) haven't been given ALL the information of the case." Yeah, let's all line up behind Angela Corey and Marilyn Mosby. We're lucky they still allow us to vote.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...And then cap that off with what amounts to an admonition to "trust the government lawyers in cases where you lesser people (non-lawyers) haven't been given ALL the information of the case."...

Whatever!

The fact remains that unless you know everything that the federal prosecutor in the Yee case knows, your opinion about the plea deal can only be based on assumptions and guesses.

The reality is that we are seeing the same kind of emotional, knee-jerk reaction to the Yee plea deal that we see when anti-gun folks react to a rampage shooting.

 

[barnbwt]

"....Do you have any clue what the prosecution's case is like? How strong or weak? Exactly what the evidence against Yee is? How it's likely to play to a jury? How good or poor the prosecution witnesses are? How much a trial would cost, in money, time, and possible disruption of other investigations/prosecutions? What information the prosecution is getting from Yee that could help other significant investigations/prosecution?..."

I did provide some sort of answer for each of these, by the way, based on publicly released information. Yee was caught red-handed committing numerous felonies, and yet by his plea he will be held accountable for only two of them. That is what we know. You can't tell us to withhold judgment until the facts come out, and simultaneously disregard the available facts under the assumption some unknown variable will appear at some unknown later date.

I can scarcely imagine a scenario where trading away such a pillar of organized corruption could be justified. The lower-end guys get plea deals so they will testify against the big fish pulling the strings; if that's not Yee, then who could it possibly be? To say nothing of the fact that even if Yee isn't the ringleader, his government position itself should hold him to such a standard that his crimes are not so easily forgiven. The fact he isn't being prosecuted under a statute specifically tailored to the use of his public office for corruption is glaring. I want mobsters punished, but I want mobster senators punished harder --after all, the former never betrayed the public's trust.

He talked the price down 88%...
"Yee was arrested last year for allegedly trading favors to help retire his campaign debts. He has pleaded not guilty to the litany of charges, including accepting money to influence medical marijuana legislation and offering to facilitate an international arms deal, for which he faces up to 165 years in prison and as much as $2.25 million in penalties."
The same article makes it clear the feds have a mind-boggling amount of evidence on the guy, so much that they hadn't even come close to processing it all at the time of his arrest, which is why he's been given trial delays for a year, now. Here's a question for real lawyers; will all this evidence that will now not be presented at trial be made public at some point?

TCB

 

[General Geoff]

The fact remains that unless you know everything that the federal prosecutor in the Yee case knows, your opinion about the plea deal can only be based on assumptions and guesses.

Logic would suggest that the prosecutor's case against Yee was not incredibly strong in order for such a relatively light plea bargain to be offered.

Or the prosecutor is crooked.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...I did provide some sort of answer for each of these, by the way, based on publicly released information....

No matter how you try to spin it, you don't, won't, can't possibly know everything the prosecutor knows about the case.

 

[General Geoff]

No matter how you try to spin it, you don't, won't, can't possibly know everything the prosecutor knows about the case.

Conclusions can be inferred from what information we do have, and modified upon availability of new information.

 

[barnbwt]

"The reality is that we are seeing the same kind of emotional, knee-jerk reaction to the Yee plea deal that we see when anti-gun folks react to a rampage shooting."

School shooting = ban all the guns that weren't even involved
High ranking state official in deep with international organized crime caught in the act of an arms deal = plea down to one charge of racketeering

You know, you're right; neither response does seem appropriate to the cause.

"Logic would suggest that the prosecutor's case against Yee was not incredibly strong in order for such a relatively light plea bargain to be offered."
And since he was literally caught in the act of an arms deal for terrorists who were actually FBI agents, I'm "WAGuessing" they have plenty on him for that much, at least.

"Or the prosecutor is crooked."
Yeah, or this. From the same Justice Department which has bent over to avoid diligent prosecutions for all sorts of politically motivated reasons. Yee wasn't just 'some guy,' he was a rising star in the political machine of one of the most influential Democrat capitols. He was gunning for mayor, after all, and was in frequent contact with --not only his state representative peers-- but also federal titans like Feinstein. Probably state and federal prosecutor's and police offices as well, on occasion (especially if he sought to enlist them). He is the very spit of the type of person who would be afforded a pass by a politically/criminally compromised prosecution.

"No matter how you try to spin it, you don't, won't, can't possibly know everything the prosecutor knows about the case."
I think that's the third time you've completely dismissed me out of hand...

TCB

 

[X-Rap]

A President resigned in shame some 40 years ago because he erased some tape recordings of his personal conversations, today we have a Commissioner and her agency erasing thousands of files and a candidate for president guilty of the same and worse. (both should be in jail) Politicians today are the new royal protected class, we see it in Lehrner, Clinton, Menendez, Holder and Yee.
It's not lack of evidence it's lack of will.