Breaking news: Ninth Circuit Rules California May Issue Unconstituional

[200Apples]

.
As a Californian living in Los Angeles, I am surprised, amazed and very appreciative of those who took on this fight.

Up to this point I had given up the hope of acquiring a CCW. I remain skeptical due to the fact that I live *in* Los Angeles, among many millions of souls... and if by some miracle this city should begin to issue, the line of applicants might extend to the Mississippi river. That would be the point at which we might learn if Heinlein's "An armed society is a polite society" would ring true.

 

[9mmepiphany]

A much more interesting point will be what happens in Hawaii...which also falls under the 9th Circuit

 

[9mmepiphany]

As others may have noted, winning is a process of small victories.

CA is unusual in that CCW are issued by individual counties and not by the State, that is what makes this latest ruling so far reaching. Suits in different counties can now point to the 9th Circuit ruling as the overriding Law.

Other targets in the works are the Safe Gun Roster and magazine limitations

 

[steve4102]

Is this over?

...or can any one of the 30+ judges in the 9th request an en banc and start this all over again?

 

[Frank Ettin]

It's not quite over. There are a few more hurdles. But it's one more significant step.

 

[Field Tester]

Gore's waiting on the 9th and still holding up applications. He's trying everything he can to delay.
The good thing is that the only one who can appeal after this is Gore himself. He knows it would be foolish to though.
It breaks my heart that Harris was reelected and Gore ran unopposed.
We won't have any political victories any time soon, all wins will come from the courts.

 

[steve4102]

It's not quite over. There are a few more hurdles. But it's one more significant step.

Can you enlighten us on some or all of these "hurdles" that will be forthcoming?

 

[Agsalaska]

I was under the impression that Federal Court rulings applied generally within each circuit.

But, since this ruling was by a three-judge panel, might this be further reviewed by the full court, if California requests it?

Sort of. It doesn't specifically address another law, but the ruling can be applied to other laws when challenged. A lawyer may be able to explain that a little better.

It will, however, have far reaching effects across the 9th circuit.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Can you enlighten us on some or all of these "hurdles" that will be forthcoming?

If you're interested you could start with Chuck Michel's facebook page:

"The Peruta ruling was a long overdue recognition of the right to obtain a license to carry a firearm to defend yourself. The Attorney General’s next action will determine whether the Peruta case ends here. Attorney General Harris could seek review of her request to intervene in the appeal by an eleven judge “en banc” panel of the Ninth Circuit, or by the Supreme Court. Regardless, pending requests for en banc review in similar cases that benefitted from the work done in the Peruta case could imperil the Peruta ruling. Supreme Court review of the Peruta decision would resolve this important issue once and for all."

Mr. Michel is one of Mr. Peruta's lawyers in the case.

Beyond that, I'm not planning on spending the time to do any in depth research. That case is being handled by some very competent Second Amendment lawyers who are doing everything they can. It will work through the process.

 

[Red Wind]

Beyond that, I'm not planning on spending the time to do any in depth research. That case is being handled by some very competent Second Amendment lawyers who are doing everything they can. It will work through the process.

It will work its way through. This ex San Francisco guy feels good today, and feels confident that the shackles are off ,and that shall issue shall reign in the Golden State, which I love so much.

Time will tell but I'm an optimist. This time we are finally gonna make it!

 

[splithoof]

I have watched CCW legislation here in California for decades, and while happy about this latest step, will not celebrate just yet. The next major, huge hurdle to widespread CCW issuance in California will be to get a positive ruling on Good Moral Character, the other tool of which I predict that many agencies will use as a tool of blanket denial.
I just don't believe that jurisdictions such as Los Angeles County (and City) for example will just roll over so easily. I could even see those agencies flat out refusing to obey court orders; just who is going to go into their offices and force them?
I am hopeful however, that the battle for CCW for the common person will be finalized within the next five to ten years.

 

[9mmepiphany]

...just who is going to go into their offices and force them?

Most likely someone who signs off on their budgets

 

[LiveLife]

Woohoo! My day just got much brighter!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...fornia-restrictions-on-conceal-carry-permits/

Attorney Chuck Michel will be on Cam & Co show to discuss today's Peruta ruling on Thursday 11/13/14 @ 2-5 PM EST - http://www.nranews.com/cam

From their Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/MichelLawy...04395.104574342920780/860487420662798/?type=1

11/12/14 - Chuck Michel, Senior Partner at Michel & Associates

The Peruta ruling was a long overdue recognition of the right to obtain a license to carry a firearm to defend yourself. The Attorney General’s next action will determine whether the Peruta case ends here. Attorney General Harris could seek review of her request to intervene in the appeal by an eleven judge “en banc” panel of the Ninth Circuit, or by the Supreme Court. Regardless, pending requests for en banc review in similar cases that benefitted from the work done in the Peruta case could imperil the Peruta ruling. Supreme Court review of the Peruta decision would resolve this important issue once and for all.

I will be following this with a big smile on my face in anticipation!

 

[Red Wind]

Woohoo! My day just got much brighter!

I bet it did! We are going to win this tournament and turn Americas most populous and most beautiful state around!

I feel like I just won the Powerball!

 

[steelerdude99]

I bet it did! We are going to win this tournament and turn Americas most populous and most beautiful state around!

I feel like I just won the Powerball!

As Frank said, there are still a few hurdles; so don't go pistol pack'n just yet. Think'n CA will just lie down and say "my bad" is not going to happen. This is the same state that just passed a "gun violence restraining order law".

Just as an FYI: There is a federal law saying it's legal to travel with a firearm(s) from any state to any other state where that firearms is legal. Yet, NYC still arrests, confiscates their firearms, looks for other damning or contradictory evidence of their travels persons who travel through NYC with "unregistered arms". They jail them even though some cases may be thrown out due to the federal law ... eventually. Going against that mentality sans lawyer would be foolish.

chuck

 

[Red Wind]

Perhaps I am a cockeyed optimist Chuck. I know they just won't lie down like a dying dog, but California is going to lose this battle. I don't know the exact date and time but they are going down.

In the meantime, I won't do anything more rash than have a few margaritas at The Islander on Key Largo. That's about 2900 miles away from the Cali border.

I do appreciate your thoughts and cautiousness. That is a given. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread is a truism. I won't rush in.

 

[LiveLife]

Perhaps I am a cockeyed optimist ... I know they just won't lie down like a dying dog, but California is going to lose this battle.

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals includes the following states and territories and eventual case win will have far reaching implications IMO. I am an optimist too.

- Alaska
- Arizona
- California
- Hawaii
- Idaho
- Montana
- Nevada
- Oregon
- Washington
- Guam
- Northern Mariana Islands

 

[NYC Drew]

By SteelerDude99
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9687472&postcount=240
Just as an FYI: There is a federal law saying it's legal to travel with a firearm(s) from any state to any other state where that firearms is legal. Yet, NYC still arrests, confiscates their firearms, looks for other damning or contradictory evidence of their travels persons who travel through NYC with "unregistered arms". They jail them even though some cases may be thrown out due to the federal law ... eventually. Going against that mentality sans lawyer would be foolish.

I am not a member of the NYC police dept, or any of its five DA's offices, or affiliated with any (other) LE agency in the immediacy of NYC, but I can tell you your statement is factually incorrect.
The protections offered under federal law "Firearms Owners’ Protection Act" (926A) are very narrow.

There are competitions in NY where non residents bring the secured and unloaded NY compliant firearms to ranges in NY, and they are not being arrested.

Likewise, because the NYC metro area sits on a corridor of north-south and east-west interstates, there is a high concentration of vehicular traffic thru that region. There is no police resource in the nation with the manpower to process that flow of traffic thru that region to confiscate firearms.

Outside of folks attempting to check guns in on outbound flights that originate in the NYC metro area (Long Island, Westchester Co, NYC, Newark Airport, etc) there is rarely mention of someone being unlawfully arrested for possession of a firearm under FOPA. By this I mean "statistically", which of course is a pain in the patootie if it is happening only to 1 in 25 million travelers, and that one person is you (or me)!

NYC Drew

 

[steelerdude99]

I am not a member of the NYC police dept, or any of its five DA's offices, or affiliated with any (other) LE agency in the immediacy of NYC, but I can tell you your statement is factually incorrect.
The protections offered under federal law "Firearms Owners’ Protection Act" (926A) are very narrow.

There are competitions in NY where non residents bring the secured and unloaded NY compliant firearms to ranges in NY, and they are not being arrested.

Likewise, because the NYC metro area sits on a corridor of north-south and east-west interstates, there is a high concentration of vehicular traffic thru that region. There is no police resource in the nation with the manpower to process that flow of traffic thru that region to confiscate firearms.

Outside of folks attempting to check guns in on outbound flights that originate in the NYC metro area (Long Island, Westchester Co, NYC, Newark Airport, etc) there is rarely mention of someone being unlawfully arrested for possession of a firearm under FOPA. By this I mean "statistically", which of course is a pain in the patootie if it is happening only to 1 in 25 million travelers, and that one person is you (or me)!

NYC Drew

NYC Drew,
The topic of NYC "not embracing FOPA" has been covered in a few threads here on THC, here is one of the threads:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=672879&highlight=NYC

But recall I said that from they'll still treat the gun owner as a criminal and then let the court decide. So ... that means arrest, that means lawyer (i.e. $$$$) along with "kiss the firearm goodbye". Basically, it's "We caught you with an illegal firearm... NOW prove to this court that you were traveling in accordance with FOPA as you claim.".

As for "competitions in NY" is it pre- or post- SAFE act?

I live less than 75 miles from a DC government that does not want to issue carry permits despite a ruling saying they must. I hear the drama playing out very few days on the nightly news. At this stage, they have a interim system of may-issue based on the anti-gun police chief's decision AND "a good cause". They require "DC testing and training" where there is no (that's zero) "DC certified" instructors" or firing ranges in the city. There is just one FFL who works out of the police station. Other "FFLs are welcome" to open a business in DC "anywhere zoning permits". Transfers are north of $100.00. There's a reporter for FOX news in DC, Emily Miller, who regularly exposes the lunacy of DC's gun laws. Another wrinkle occurred a few days ago. The police chief wants written into the finalized law that when a dignitary's passes by unannounced within a certain distance (500 ft or so), that carry permits are null and those with firearms are subject to arrest. (see http://dcist.com/2014/10/dc_concealed_carry_bill_hearing.php for more info)

My point is that when a government body does not want to do something (or in this case does not want allow its citizens to legally carry a firearm) even when a court mandates it, it will find ways to make it difficult to say the least for those who rely on the ruling for protection.

chuck

 

[Red Wind]

bds and NYC Drew. I like your style. We will overcome. Pessimism never won anything .

We are going to win and take back America. Losers can line up on the left. The far left.

 

[LiveLife]

More in-depth overview and implications - http://www.nraila.org/legislation/s...lifornia-one-step-closer-to-shall-issue!.aspx

It may be premature but I am smiling in anticipation.

Sure, with the Republican controlled Senate and House, the anti's will push harder but with the prospect of a republican in the White House and possible future appointments to the US Supreme Court, I feel my morning coffee will keep tasting better and better.

 

[LiveLife]

For those who missed Chuck Michel on Cam & Co this afternoon, you can view the interview here (at the link, look under "View the latest Cam & Co shows" and scroll down to "CHUCK MICHEL Senior Partner of Michel and Associates" and click to play video - http://www.nranews.com/cam/list/cam-company

 

[danez71]

I just don't believe that jurisdictions such as Los Angeles County (and City) for example will just roll over so easily. I could even see those agencies flat out refusing to obey court orders

Id bet money that there will not be a single LEA that "flat out refusing to obey court orders"


They are obedient. And besides, it would completely undermines any legitimacy the LEA has

 

[Kynoch]

This is a wonderful step, but we're not settled.

First, San Diego is going to appeal, apparently to an 'en banc' panel of the 9th Circuit. I believe they have made that intention known so today's opinion is 'on hold'.

Then, the loser there is likely, but not certain, to appeal to the Supreme Court.

If today's decision holds, CA residents would still have to apply, with all the procedures that entails; what changes is the requirement for some specific need acceptable to an issuing agency - That goes. 'Personal safety' would become sufficient 'good cause'.

And then there will be the San Francisco and Los Angeles and State of California following suits claiming 'oh, but we are special ...'. One can hope those will be slapped down hard.

Do you think the anti-gun camp would actually risk doing so? If they did and if they lost, the ramifications for their world would be tremendous.

 

[Librarian]

Do you think the anti-gun camp would actually risk doing so? If they did and if they lost, the ramifications for their world would be tremendous.

November is way different from February.

I think a very reasonable analysis was posted by CD Michel at http://www.calgunlaws.com/ca-nra-ila-legal-update-california-one-step-closer-to-shall-issue/