Shall Issue CCW is coming to San Diego County and to all of California.

[ArmedLiberal]

Big News! Shall Issue CCW is coming to San Diego County and to all of California. The long dark winter of California Anti-Gun Law is starting to thaw.


11/20/10 News article reporting the latest in Peruta v County of San Diego

http://www.examiner.com/county-poli...ates-sue-county-of-san-diego-and-sheriff-gore

"However, Michel (Peruta's attorney) provided the court with two important facts. “There are currently 37/38 states that are currently “shall issue” states. They also said they saw reductions in their violent crime rates, significant declines, because nobody wants to go duck hunting when five percent of the ducks can shoot back.”

The plaintiff’s asked the court to simply look at the firearm policy, and find that it should be applied fairly and keep political preference out of the right to “keep and bear arms.”

As the gavel fell, Judge Gonzalez acknowledged the legal significance of the case and said this precedent-setting 2nd Amendment case would have a written ruling in three-to-four weeks."​

Overview and history of Peruta v County of San Diego

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php?title=Peruta_v._County_of_San_Diego

 

[esquare]

They also said they saw reductions in their violent crime rates, significant declines, because nobody wants to go duck hunting when five percent of the ducks can shoot back.

I think that's my favorite quote of the year!!! Who can argue with that?

 

[cesarv]

This is big. I really do hope that things get better here in California.

 

[Warhawk83]

I'm pulling for you guys!

 

[docnyt]

Oh wow. History in the making.

 

[omegaflame]

I will be periodically using that quote in discussions on CC/OC from now on.

(also I've been watching this for a while (CA here))

 

[fastpat]

This is a good thing, if it works out. I left CA in 2005 after 13 frustrating years there.

Is anyone following the efforts in the other unConstitutional states with regard to CCW? We might want a sticky thread for each.

 

[Buck Snort]

Sacramento Co. got turned around after a lawsuit and Stanislaus Co. is now issueing due to the Sheriff's campaign pledge which he has seen fit to honor. We also have high hopes here that the safe gun list is going to go away.

 

[Downr@nge]

This is why I say that NJ still has the worst gun laws in the country. Congratulations to you guys!

 

[omegaflame]

Other things that really annoy me in CA:

Hi-cap limit
"assault" weapon ban
handgun whitelist

Other than that everything else is minor (gun locks per gun, 10 day wait(though I think it's silly if you already own a gun))

 

[esquare]

As an aside, a waiting period strips law abiding citizens of their rights for that period of time and has many negative repercussions. When a woman is being stalked or a man threatened, they need a gun RIGHT NOW - not in 10 days. LA riots sent people running to gun stores, and to their horror they found out that they had to wait 10 days to pick up their guns. If someone decides in a fit of rage that they are going to murder someone else, I'm sure they could walk out to the garage and get a hammer.

Anyway, back on topic - with this action, do you think SAF and Gura are going to argue that shall issue ccw is constitutional (in which this case is good for them) or are they wanting to argue that a permit should not be required to carry (ie, if you can own it, you can carry it)?

 

[DagoRed]

Wisconsin went Republican in the this last election, including the governors position. No doubt they will soon be a shall-issue state.

 

[speedway]

Awesome news!

 

[withdrawn34]

Hope this works out for you guys. As it is, CA is an interesting prospect, but the poor firearm and carry laws are just one of the reasons I cannot consider actually living there.

 

[ArmedLiberal]

[.......]

Anyway, back on topic - with this action, do you think SAF and Gura are going to argue that shall issue ccw is constitutional (in which this case is good for them) or are they wanting to argue that a permit should not be required to carry (ie, if you can own it, you can carry it)?

I believe they will go after the "low hanging fruit" first. Then once a foundation of legal precedents supporting 2nd Amendment Rights have been established it will be easier to go after the more difficult cases. Right now it's easier to argue that it's unconstitutional for different Counties to follow different procedures in issuing CCWs under equal protection. They are shooting for Shall Issue is Constitutional but that's a tougher argument in the current legal climate. But legal climate change is coming!

 

[o Unforgiven o]

Hope this works out for you guys. As it is, CA is an interesting prospect, but the poor firearm and carry laws are just one of the reasons I cannot consider actually living there.

Not to mention you already live in the best state

 

[zhyla]

Let's not count our chickens before they hatch. The case was well argued and the judge was very interested in the case from what I hear. That doesn't mean we automatically win.

BUT it does seem likely that Gore will have to stop favoring his old boys club with CCW's.

 

[mljdeckard]

This means the game is on. It's far from over. This will be the hardest battleground.

 

[zhyla]

This will be the hardest battleground.

Not that any of this is easy but no, carry permit issuance is significantly easier than, say, attacking the CA assault weapon ban. For one thing, the SCOTUS mentioned carry as a right but "assault weapon" is something yet to be nailed down by a court.

 

[lloveless]

Go Cal! I was there for 19 months last year. I was amazed at how protective the California legislature is/was of their gangbangers! This is awesome news. The bit about how Cali is the rest of the country goes is NONSENSE. Thank God-please pass the ammo.
ll

 

[Russ Jackson]

I lived in San Diego for 14 years. This will change the state. The left coast moves closer to center...Russ

 

[danez71]

Born, raise, and lived there for almost 40 yrs. This isnt over for sure... but it is huge.

Ive been wondering for the last 15 yrs why there havent been some lawyers willing to take this on. Its totally win-able. It just needs to be argued in a way that the residents of CA can identify with.

Now if I want or need to move back, this issue just got less painful.

Some of my high cap mags are grandfathered in. I even have the original receipts when I bought my BHP in 1993 in SoCa. My M&P9c on the other hand....

And I agree. The high cap ban and AWB will be a tougher battle.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Our next thing on the horizon is doing away with the "Approved Handgun List"

 

[mljdeckard]

I meant KA in general. It has the most layers and the toughest opposition.

 

[Zoogster]

Seems like a lot of celebration for something that has not yet happened.


For all you know the court will write an opinion that provides a loophole.
Unless 'they feel it poses a risk' of some sort...
Then they will all start saying they feel it poses that type of risk.

Another way they currently limit CCW holders in some counties including San Diego is by requiring multiple separate trips to the Sheriff's office in the middle of the week during typical work hours.
As well as letters from other people.
http://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html

Applicants must submit the following:
▪ Proof of residency in the form of two current, unpaid utility bills that list their name, service address and mailing address (or other similar type proof).
▪ Three character reference letters are required to assist in substantiating good moral character.
▪ These letters must be written by local residents and contain a local address and phone number. Letters will not be accepted from any relatives. The writer must also acknowledge he or she understands the letter is for an application for a concealed weapons license.

An individual has to find three non relatives that they are willing to tell they wish to carry a gun around, who will then write a professional letter that says they should be allowed to carry that gun.
While that may be no problem for some people, I am sure that for some it is more of a problem.
What about the individual in an anti-gun part of some California suburb who goes from work home to their spouse and children everyday, and does not wish to alarm coworkers or have it known at their workplace they are pursuing carrying a firearm?
What about the housewife that has anti-gun soccer moms as friends?
What about those individuals that spend most of their lives with family and don't keep multiple friendships? I know there is many such people, especially in large families.
Then the three also know, and may tell other people. So you need not only three, but preferably three that are of a certain character.
Not everyone wants everyone else knowing they can or do carry a gun around especially in an anti-gun location, and a requirement to find three willing to write a letter increases how many will know directly because of asking, and then how many additional will learn through gossip from those who were asked.



So self defense becomes a valid reason. That alone is not going to create a significant increase in CCW permits.
In fact it looks like the San Diego Sheriff's website has anticipated this change and added this line:

If you want to apply strictly for personal protection; the required documentation will be discussed at the time of the initial first interview, additional documentation may be requested.

Which gives the perspective they are planning on business as usual, just another valid reason they have to allow to be written down, but they can still deny it on other grounds at their discretion.


Then there is the utility bill requirement.
What about a retired elderly couple living and traveling in a motorhome?
I guess they wouldn't qualify for self defense?
When did having a residence or paying utility bills become a mandatory part of being a citizen or retaining rights?
Everyone has to live a certain cookie cutter lifestyle to qualify for their rights?