Bringing a wheelgun to the sandbox

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THE DRILL INSTRUCTOR

THE DRILL INSTRUCTOR

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I just had a fantasy I'd like to run by you guys.

My unit NG unit is deploying sometime within the next three years, and we'll probably end up doing mounted patrols and MOUT in Afganistan. (Even though that's not what were trained for, but that's another story)

Anyway, I've been thinking on getting a good size double-action in either .44 mag or .45 colt (loaded hot) and having it parkerized tan. It'd be a much better backup than a M9.

So what do you guys think? I haven't been deployed yet, so what are some of your opinions as veterans?
 
With all of that sand, I hope you would know how to completely take it down and clean it. All of it. All those little parts need to be kept sand-free, which will be hard to do overseas in that part of the world.
 
Better make DAMN SURE that your CO isn't going to make trouble for you re: non-issued weapons. Also, source of ammo may be an issue.
 
I would strongly advise a Ruger DA under rough conditions - field stripping would be much easier as they're made to come apart with no tools except for a small screwdriver for the grip panel screw. Inside the grips you'll find a takedown tool for everything else that needs doing.

I would also consider finding one of the old Service/Security series six-shooters that were set up as factory 9mms with moon clips, or possibly a 3" barrel SP101 so equipped (but 5-shot). You'll be able to score 9mm ammo over there very easily.

IF you think you can score 45ACP on a regular basis, get a Ruger 44Mag Redhawk and have it converted to 45ACP with moons - this is possible because the cylinder dimensions are fundamentally similar to an N-Frame S&W - and S&W has made N-frame mooned 45ACPs for many years (moon clip supply is good).

I *think* somebody is doing a moonclip 45ACP conversion on 454 Alaskans, in which case that would work GREAT. Since the SuperRedHawk takes the GP100 grip sets, use the smaller rubber "round butt" grip set that's factory standard on fixed-sight GP100s. I believe the resulting gun could also shoot 45LC or 454Casull so you could load it wild if needed, or go back to easily available ammo in a pinch. This would be THE hot setup.
 
The chances of taking a personal owned gun to the mid east is ZERO.

The only people not carrying M9's are a few NG and MP units that have switched over to Glocks. Special Forces. Units training Iraq's police and military can carry the Iraq equipment (Glock 19 or 17's I forget) Not up on the Navy stuff, or their regs, but have seen a pair of SP's with Sig 226's.

But your not taking your own. If your real and not some I want to be cool guy, Id spend my money on beretta mags. Issue ones are 90% of the reported problems.
 
Get a Ruger GP100 or Super Redhawk. As long as you don't try to grease the innards or something silly like that they'll function in sand, no problemo.

That said, I'd be amazed if they let you do it.
 
I agree with Seiko, however I wouldn't say zero. If you are willing to put your career on the line and if you don't mind doing some possible brig/prison time.

If you were a Marine in a MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) being caried over on an Amphibious ship you may be able to dissassemble and pack it into your personal belongings. You wouldn't have to go through a metal detector at your onload or offload of the ship. I still think your pistol will be eventually discovered and you will have to pay the piper.

At the very least your CO will confiscate it. A more likely punishment from a more "middle of the road" CO, you would lose a rank and get 45/45 (45 days restriction/45 days half pay). A more hardnosed CO would courtmartial you and you could get some time.

I would get the idea out of your head. It's not worth it. Almost all of the soldiers, and even sailors, in my case, would rather have their own firearms, but it's just not allowed.
 
With all the weapons floating around in the area, consider the possiblity of buying one when your in country.
I have read that its easy to take them there but hard to bring them back.
 
I was regular Army in the 80's. In my experience non-issued firearms were verboten on duty, and if you had one for off duty (living on post), it had to be stored in the unit arms room.

Now my time in the sun ended before the current days of the sand box, and times have changed with the Army.

But...

My son inlaw is regular Army now on tour number two in the sand box. His first trip and unit was no personal firearms allowed. His new unit is the same. He knows of no active duty Army persons that he has had dealings with that have had/carried their own non-govt issue weapons in theater. He is not in the rear in either case. First trip artillery unit tasked with driving supply trucks. This trip combat engineer keeping tabs on the bridges over the Euphrates. Both jobs I think would be well advised for personal weaps, but Army thinks otherwise.
 
And to add.
When you return from overseas, you WILL be subjected to a vigorous and penetrating inspection/search to be sure you're not trying to bring home weapons, ammo, ordnance, or drugs.

The gun WILL be found, it WILL be confiscated, and you WILL be in major trouble.
Other then the FEW exceptions listed above, personal weapons are strictly FORBIDDEN.
 
Yeah, well we can't have our soldiers arming themselves. Someone might get hurt!

Just when I think our federal overlords can't be any more idiotic, I am freshly amazed. We deserve to lose these wars.
 
What a load of crapola the government and military heads put on our men and women in uniform, no personal weapons choice with something that could preserve their lives while serving in designated sandbox.

Talk about gun control...in our military units.

Use a personal weapon in war zones and go to the brig or stockade if you're discovered.

Sounds about right for our government minions in high positions.

Are the CO's afraid the troops will get liquored up and start plugging each other, or their command heads...yep, that's about the size of the situation.

At least that seems to be the reason we can't get CCW here in Wisconsin.

Jim
 
I really think it is more of a supply issue. At least that was most likely the beginning of the logic behind not allowing personal firearms.
You have to be able to keep troops with ammo so they can continue to fight without running out of their particular weapon's ammo.

I can't figure why we (military members) wouldn't be allowed to bring our own weapons that fire common calibers such as 5.56, .45, .9mm, .308, 12 gauge. It seems like it would save money and improve the overall effectiveness of the military.

I suspect the reason now is not just logistical, but some bleeding heart wanted no personal weapons because it would make taking a life more "personal" instead of "an act of war" if you used a personal firearm. I'm sure that the Geneva Convention has something to do with this also, but the US and it's closest allies are the only ones that have to abide by that (Geneva Convention) anyway. Fighting with one hand tied behind our backs while others have the full use of any and everything they can muster.

BTW: If you can find a better place in the world, please go there and be happier. Tell me where that place is and I'll go too, but I don't think it exists. 44and45 why don't you go North a little ways and see how much better they have it in Canada. I think you'll come running home. The military does the best it can with what it has to work with.

Even with one hand tied, we are still the best in the world. By we I also include the Brits, Canadians and the Australians. Few people here realize how much they do in the efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq.
 
Weird, it never even occured to me that taking a personal weapon to a war zone would be no no. :scrutiny:

I guess it does probably have to do with the G.C. and what type of weapons/ammo can be used in war. Really though....a back up pistol seems like something that should be allowed as long as the soldier supplies the ammo too.
 
TDI: Exactly what dfariswheel said.

I will add...

Although many have tried, most have wound up in deep kimchi. It was possible during early 2001, but by 2002, the MP, CID, US Customs effort was in full force. They have seen it all. Whatever devious plan you might think of...someone else has already tried and been caught at.

I personally know several folks who have thrown their careers into the crapper over this. Not funny.

In addition to being in direct violation of General Order #1 (as in "issued by Commanding General") during wartime (a general court marshal offence), you would probably face federal charges. These would be levied by US Customs (who operate at all ports of departure from CENTCOM) or similar charges by BATFE, TSA, or FBI if you were unlucky enough to have your carefully hidden treasure discovered in a vehicle or container inspected upon return to CONUS.



Summing up the reasons that bringing your POW is a bad idea :eek::

1. Likely UCMJ action involving (at the very least) reduction in grade, fine, flag of all favorable actions (promotion, schools, DEMOBILIZATION, etc.), bar to re-enlistemnent...OR (worse case) imprisonment, reduction, dishonorable discharge, loss of all pay/allowances/retirement & medical benefits.

2. Federal felony charges (which you won't beat) that also involve potential fines, imprisonment, and essentially permanent loss of your right to own firearms.

3. Possible loss of your civilian career while your employer waits for the outcome of your multiple criminal cases.

4. Legal fees for the civilian attorney/s you will have to hire...regardless of outcome.

5. How would your family situation hold up if you were returned to the States and re-assigned to a base outside of your homestate. You'd be in for many months of Active Duty limbo status at some do-nothing job (pending decisions as to your fate by your Active Duty MACOM HQ)?

6. Loss of your security clearance (if you have one).

The ARNG/ANG mafia might be able to pull some strings to mitigate punishment, but be unable to protect you completely from Title 10 jurisdiction. Once Uncle Sugar mobilizes you, you are AD (even in Leavenworth).

All that said and speaking purely hypothetically...

I sympathize...I can think of several of my revolvers I'd be perfectly happy to lug about, but you're already going to be seriously loaded down (rifle, body armor, helmet, basic load, water, IFAK, radios, NVGs, pyro, goggles, etc.). While it sounds like a cool idea now, you'd probably live to regret actually trying to haul around a Redhawk or N-frame Smith...

Wheedle your unit to issue you an M9 and then spend some scratch on decent magazines, holster, duty belt, mag pouch, grips, or tactical light.

I'd certainly not take anything I wouldn't mind giving away or having confiscated. Probably a little KelTec (just to have a BUG).

The Ruger DA in caliber of your choice would definitely be the way to go for a sidearm (for reasons already stated by other posters)...;)

Alternatively, pistolas are easy to find in the 'Stan...especially Maks.

Sorry to sound preachy...I like your revolver concept.
 
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When I stationed in Germany I bought a Winchester M 94 30-30 and tried to bring it back with me .I had to fill out the importation form with ATF and I had to get the clearance from provos marshall and permission from CO.All of this work to get my beloved 30-30 back home (and I only shoot 10 rounds because there was shortage of 30-30 ammo in Germany at the time)

I agree with everyone else that you won't have trouble taking Ruger Redhawk (that nice one with 4 inches barrel ) and lot of .44 magnum with you in the duffle bag or the backpack but on the way home you best toss that sucker out of the Humvee before you reach the airport (or may be give it to the translator or someone)
 
A good friend of mine used to send pocket knives to our troops. "They" don't allow him to do it anymore. Apparentely it's ok to have 5.56, 7.62, 9mm, .45 and 12ga., but not a pocket knife???
 
All that customs enforcement ect. would be better employed on the Mexican border IMHO.Sure isn't like the earlier Nam years when most people took something in,and it usally was left there with a 'newbie'.I think lots of people took home M2s and grease guns and aks by shipping them in speaker boxes-so I heard!Anyway I would rather have an M9 or Glock in a war anyway-sorry wheel gun fans.
 
Unless you are in the Air national guard, and flying the plane, or the loadmaster of a crew you should not take the weapon with you as others have said it will be confiscated. I do know a couple folks in the ANG who fly cargo into and out of Iraq. They stop over in Germany often, a personal sidearm (1911) is carried and left on the plane by a couple of these folks.
But you didnt say you have your own cargo plane.
 
As a former officer in the Air Force, I advise you against lugging your own hardware. Asside from the fact that you are thinking of taking a contraband weapon. Which you will not bring back. You will not have approved ammunition.
In modern warefare you must use Full-Metal-Jacketed Projectiles. It comes from the 'Hague Accorde' from the 1800's. has to do with minimizing suffering. Believe it or not, you not supposed to use shotguns in combat, but you can use them guarding prisioners....

IMHO just get some high quality magazines for your Berretta, and avoid a whole lot of heartburn for yourself.
 
Bad idea then. Oh well, another good idea lost to bureaucracy. Like I said, this was a fantasy; I'm not too disappointed with the truth. Thanks for the advice.

Might as well get some fun out of this thread now:
If you could bring one personal sidearm to Iraq/Afganistan, What would it be?

My answer: Ruger Super Redhawk in .454, milled for .45 ACP in full moon clips. I'd also bring some hot .454 hollowpoints with me and a spare parts kit.
 
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