Broke my own rule..

[Trent]

So .. I broke my own rule last night. My wife takes my Irish wolfhound out last night for a potty break, and a minute later comes running back in the house.

"I heard something in the trailer!"

(have an enclosed motorcycle trailer parked outside on the driveway).

I grab the nightstand sidearm, holster, slide it in my belt, and go out the back (different entrance), circle around the house.

Sure enough, the door to the trailer is standing wide open. I had my boys loading it up earlier that day with scrap metal to haul to the recycler, they must have forgot to close it.

Now, assessing the situation, I figure it's one of two things: Meth head raiding the countryside for loot, or raccoon.

I cautiously enter the trailer with all the style of a mall ninja, and it turns out to be just a cute fluffy raccoon rummaging through the stripped down computer cases we were going to haul off to the recycler. I reversed track, left the door open, banged on the back of the trailer and he went scampering off in to the woods. He/she was a big sucker. Wouldn't have fit in my live trap, no way.

When I got back inside, I realized had it been a two legged scavenger, I would have stuck my neck out a bit too far on this one.

Now, when I go outside after dark, I always go armed. Police are only a short 20+ minute drive away, out here.

Was investigating the issue worthwhile? Sure, the trailer was unlocked and needed tending to. That much was clear.

Just thinking I might have handled it differently. Conventional wisdom is to just lock yourself up inside and make them come to you. But at the same time I don't want to feel as if I'm afraid to go outside on my own property at night. Nighttime out here in the country is beautiful, and it seems I'd rob myself of part of the good country life if I barricade myself indoors after the sun goes down.

 

[Kleanbore]

Noises from the trailer outside at night...property owner arms himself and heads outside....

Happened near Dallas some time ago. The man was ambushed, stabbed, disarmed, and shot with his own firearm.

He survived, but he lost an arm and his livelihood as an airline mechanic.

 

[FMF Doc]

I would have definantly had a light, don't know if you did, you didn't mention. And if 4 legged tresspassers are as much of a concern as the 3 legged type, I might have opted for a shotgun instead. You have to find the balance between unnecessary risk and "protecting your castle." That answer differs based an each person and each scenario. Only you can really make that call. Glad you came out of it safe.

 

[Bobson]

But at the same time I don't want to feel as if I'm afraid to go outside on my own property at night. Nighttime out here in the country is beautiful, and it seems I'd rob myself of part of the good country life if I barricade myself indoors after the sun goes down.

I have to agree with this. I know the arguments for/against investigating a strange noise, versus hunkering down and allowing any potential trespasser to meet you on your own ground, but I'd put a "strange noise in the shed/barn/whatever" in a different class.

Bottom line is there's always going to be a horror story; whether we're talking about investigating a strange noise, or teaching a three-year-old to ride a bicycle.

A man needs to make his own decisions when it comes to risk management - that much is undeniable. There's a fine line between acting prudently, and rationalizing fearful behavior by calling it prudence. I'm not reckless, but I'm not going to avoid every risk for the rest of my life, either.

 

[Kleanbore]

The guy in the Dallas area had a shotgun.

As one of our members put it, he took a shotgun to a knife fight and lost.

The take-away point is, if there is a violent criminal actor or two or three out there, out there is not the place to be.

I spend more time than I need to pondering situations like this. Decades ago, I spent summers visiting relatives on two different farms. Both were miles from the nearest porch-light. One was miles from the nearest telephone. We left the doors unlocked. There were guns, but no one carried one.

Later, they added those bright high mounted yard lights that block the view of the stars and rob the night of its beauty.

 

[scaatylobo]

Irish wolfhound - !

If the answer was not really obvious,I hope it is now.

And if the dog is worth too much to let it bite a dirtbag.

At least LIGHT UM UP,as the dark is the preferred mode for perp's to operate in.

I have had GREAT luck with the use of my lights when I was LEO,seesm perps have a belief that only cops use BRIGHT lights.

So I would use a hand held MILLION candle power light in remote areas.

Worked every time,some did run.but none tried to run AT me.

 

[Eb1]

I often wonder that if I lived in the country like you explained if I would have some type of outdoor intercom system and also cameras.

That way I could see what was going on from the inside, and also tell the subjects what was on my mind from inside my home. I don't know if this would really resolve the situation, but at least you could do most of your investigation safely.
Also if all I had was "scrap" in the trailer, I might have just observed from a safer distance until I could verify the threat of number of threats.

 

[Skribs]

The technical, tactically correct answer is what KB said - IF there is a bad guy, you are at a disadvantage investigating yourself.

That doesn't change the fact that if there might be a bad guy, I'm going to check it out. If I'm pretty darn sure there is a BG, I'm going to call 911 and stay safe.

 

[Trent]

I was wearing a bright headlamp, always keep one on the night stand.

Before entering the trailer, while having the only exit to it covered, with my back to a wall, I spoke "If you are human, show me your hands and step outside." All movement inside had stopped from the first word I spoke.

(Firearm was drawn, chambered, and hammer back)

After about 30 seconds I approached, repeated the words.

Before I approached the trailer I cleared my back trail, and scanned the side of the garage so I wouldn't have unknown territory behind me.

When I went in I opened the door with my foot, cleared the right side while still outside (it's shallower). Then popped my head in and out to clear the left side. Didn't see anything big and two legged, so I stepped inside. Heard motion, saw the eyes reflecting back; raccoon was hiding in one of the computer cases we had stripped that afternoon for recycling.

Anyway, scared him off, done and done.

Tell you what, though, at night, going outside, you'd be surprised how creepy it is to wear that headlamp. Look in to the woods, see four or five sets of eyes reflecting back at you. Can't tell if they're bad guys or deer until you hear them snort and run.

 

[scaatylobo]

headlamp = really ?

Sorry but imnsho that is THE worst place to have a light.

I wont bother you with all the reasons,but to make your HEAD the place to shoot to put out the light is beyond reason.

Besides you have to PUT YOUR HEAD in the door to see !.

 

[Sam1911]

That doesn't change the fact that if there might be a bad guy, I'm going to check it out. If I'm pretty darn sure there is a BG, I'm going to call 911 and stay safe.

Ahh yes... the classic!

There might be a bad guy. If there's a bad guy, I shouldn't go! There might NOT be a bad guy. If there is NOT a bad guy, I really don't need to go.

The choice is between a very bad decision and an unnecessary action. But, hey, let's do it anyway, right?

As long as there was no reason to go in the first place, go ahead, you're fine. If there WAS some reason to go, you've put yourself in grave danger.

It's like a black hole of logic. We just can't seem to turn away, even when we KNOW it is completely nonsensical.


...

"Woah, an old guillotine! Wow, I just HAVE to know if it works. I guess there really only could be ONE WAY to find out -- better put my head through the hole and yank the lever! Ooooh, please oh please oh please be BROKEN! Welll (gulp!), here goes --- YANK!"

 

[Teachu2]

My house, garage, shop, and vehicle parking is covered by motion-sensor-activated floodlights. I see the lights coming on long before I hear anything. The local varmints have become accostomed to the light, so when they get to be a nuisance I can sit on the porch with a .17HMR and safely reduce their numbers...

The light sure cuts down on the meth heads, too.

 

[Skribs]

I guess I should qualify this - mainly, if I'm going to check it out, it's a situation where I would have otherwise just ignored it. Checking it out is mainly for peace of mind so I can ignore it. Generally my experience has not been sounds, but coming home to find me or someone else had accidentally left the door unlocked or the alarm off. With no other signs of forced entry, it is very apparent what happened, but I check just in case. Pretty sure 911 would be grumpy with me if I'd called them several times because the door was unlocked.

Like I said, I know my decision wouldn't be tactically correct or technically correct, but I'd rather check it out while I'm on alert than ignore the issue and come face to face with the BG later.

 

[Sam1911]

Just thinking I might have handled it differently. Conventional wisdom is to just lock yourself up inside and make them come to you. But at the same time I don't want to feel as if I'm afraid to go outside on my own property at night. Nighttime out here in the country is beautiful, and it seems I'd rob myself of part of the good country life if I barricade myself indoors after the sun goes down.

For my part, I have mixed feelings. For one, I will not ever forget the story that Kleanbore has shared, and others. On the other hand, bumping blindly into a bad guy isn't the only possible way to figure out what's going on, and critical analysis of what is likely to be going on (or several likely possibilities) is an important skill. We've got lots of tools we could employ to observe from afar. We've got the ability to use strategy, cover, concealment. We've got several different senses, and the gift of patience.

There should be many routes we might reasonably take between getting killed over our "stuff" and retreating into the basement over a raccoon.

 

[Skribs]

There should be many routes we might reasonably take between getting killed over our "stuff" and retreating into the basement over a raccoon.

I think this is where the disconnect is in a lot of these discussions is the assumption of a dichotomy, and the idea that anyone who doesn't follow the absolute safest action is tactically inept. At least, that's what I infer from some of the posts here, I could be reading them wrong.

 

[Sam1911]

We do seem to have several things that go on with these (often repeated) discussions.

1) Folks who say, "Hole up and stay safe. No 'stuff' is worth your life."
a) They may mean, "Be prudent. Use all the tools at your disposal to proceed with great caution so you can sleep soundly knowing all is well. If anything indicates all is not well, call the cavalry."
b) They may mean, "If you hear a noise, put on the armor, lock everyone in the panic room, and call the police."


2) Folks who say, "Go out and defend your home!"
a) They may mean, ""Be prudent. Use all the tools at your disposal to proceed with great caution so you can sleep soundly knowing all is well. If anything indicates all is not well, call the cavalry."
b) They may mean, "That's ma STUFF, dadgumit, and no varmint is gettin' thar hands on it, and they kin take it over my dead body!"
c) They may mean, "I absolutely, and deliberately, will kill a man who steals from me as long as I think the law might not prosecute me."

It behooves us to be as completely clear as possible when laying out what is lawful, what is right, and what we hope we would do under the circumstance.

 

[Skribs]

Yep. And I think there are people in Camp 1A who think people in Camp 2A are actually in Camp 2B, and vice versa.

So when I say I will check on the noise first, I guess the people in Camp 1A need ask themself what I'm thinking...2B, or not 2B, that is the question. (Sorry, couldn't resist).

However, I do think there is still a scale between where the average 1A would bunker up vs. the average 2A individual, and I'm not really saying either is wrong. I just think it's a tradeoff between convenience and safety...much like the tradeoff between carrying a subpar, smaller gun (like an airweight 5-shot .357 or a .380 autoloader) for the sake of making it easier to carry, vs. using a 6-shot overbuilt .357 or a 9mm or bigger autoloader. In both cases, mindset and awareness are more important.

 

[Trent]

My take on the country is..

99.99999% of the time, a disturbance outside will be from critters.

0.000001% of the time, a family (man, woman, 3 young children) gets butchered by a hatchet. (That very thing happened about 25 miles from here a couple years back)

The headlamp thing - it's very bright. And to be honest, I'd rather have someone shoot at my head while half blinded, than shoot at my torso at a light carried waist or chest level. A head is an awful small target and the headlamp is on the topmost portion of THAT. The advantage of a headlamp is natural - wherever I look, is lit up. And it frees up both hands to keep on the firearm. Or whatever it is I happen to be working on.

Another thing.. truth be told, I'd rather be in the state where I'm alert and on the prowl, than get bushwhacked while walking out to the garage at night for a bolt or screwdriver or whatever. When my senses are peaked out, like they were last night, you're going to be damn hard pressed to sneak up on me. Branch snaps in the woods 50 yards away I'm looking at a set of reflective eyeballs in .01 seconds, and can usually recognize what type of animal it is immediately.

 

[hammerklavier]

'If you are human'? That made me chuckle.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Sam1911: There should be many routes we might reasonably take between getting killed over our "stuff" and retreating into the basement over a raccoon.

Yep.

If we detect an unidentified noise at night, we have several alternative courses of action.

Many people seem to have preprogrammed into their minds the idea of arming themselves and traipsing forth to investigate--as if having gun in hand will somehow ward off evil, prevent ambush, and cause the bullets of evildoers to miss the good guy.

It's a great tactic--if and only if there's no one lurking out there with the intent and the ability to harm.

A better approach is to listen--to stay put, and listen.

One can prepare oneself in advance for other strategies--CCTV, microphones, and remotely controlled lighting come to mind.

The other day when we were visiting friends, their little boy grabbed an iPad and handed it to me and said "watch this!" He than grabbed an iPhone and ran through other rooms pointing it here and there. I watched as real-time video of their house streamed before me.

Think of the implications.

A neighbor to whom I related the story told me how he can check out their offices all over over the country with his iPhone.

Posted by Skribs:... the idea that anyone who doesn't follow the absolute safest action is tactically inept. At least, that's what I infer from some of the posts here, I could be reading them wrong.

Well, yeah, the whole idea of armed self defense is necessary self-preservation, and I think that anything that introduces unnecessary risk is " tactically inept", if one wants to use that term.

So the question is, what other risk might one be trying to mitigate? If one needs to check on the safety of a family member out there, that is likely a reasonable risk to take.

But facing danger just to enjoy, at that moment in time, the night time in the country that is beautiful---is just not prudent. Nor is checking on property that is not immediately critical to sustaining life.

Posted by Trent: ...truth be told, I'd rather be in the state where I'm alert and on the prowl, than get bushwhacked while walking out to the garage at night for a bolt or screwdriver or whatever. When my senses are peaked out, like they were last night, you're going to be damn hard pressed to sneak up on me.

I'll bet that airline mechanic thought the same thing. He'll tell you something different now.

 

[Skribs]

Well, yeah, the whole idea of armed self defense is necessary self-preservation, and I think that anything that introduces unnecessary risk is " tactically inept", if one wants to use that term.

I was more referring to Sam's 1B comment. I guess I just assumed that everyone who says "do not go forth" is in the 1B camp, and I may or may not be wrong there.

If we detect an unidentified noise at night, we have several alternative courses of action.

Many people seem to have preprogrammed into their minds the idea of arming themselves and traipsing forth to investigate--as if having gun in hand will somehow ward off evil, prevent ambush, and cause the bullets of evildoers to miss the good guy.

It's a great tactic--if and only if there's no one lurking out there with the intent and the ability to harm.

A better approach is to listen--to stay put, and listen.

It's better than the method I used when I was a teenager, doing the same thing with a pocket knife. Like I said, if I "go forth" it's not when I'm making the decision between clearing and bunkering...it's between clearing and ignoring. I also go slow and pay attention, I don't just bumble about hoping to figure out what's what.

 

[gearchecker]

In Idaho it's not legal to defend property with deadly force. I would have moved to a position for a clear view, and judged the threat level first. If it was a human threat, I would have attempted to let them know I was aware of their presence from a safe position, and probably would have called 911 so I could file the theft report a few hours after the threat had left, and the LEO's finally show up. If the threat moved to my home, it would have had a much different resolve.
when the OP said he was wearing a headlamp, the only thought I had was that a BG might have tried to turn out the light the hard way. Putting out the light would be a high priority for a determined BG. That probably would not have a good result for the
OP.

Regards,
Gearchecker

 

[Trent]

A head is a small target, and a headlamp at the topmost part of my head allows for a miss high, and to either side.

Would rather have someone aim at my head than my torso, where a miss on ANY axis is going to be ugly.

The headlamp is push button activated, so I can turn it on / off as desired. Also has a red / white toggle so I can get some light without ruining my night vision.

It's bright enough it'll make you see purple spots for awhile if I look at you indoors. At night, with eyes fully dilated for darkness, your first instinct is to blink and look away. No way in hell someone is going to get any sort of decent sight picture staring directly in to that beam. It's also shielded from the sides; so if I'm not looking directly at you, you don't see the light.

Anyway, heads are small fast moving targets. Given the roll of the dice... I'd rather have a bad guy try to shoot me in the head, while blinded, than aim center mass and pop one off.

 

[Trent]

Kleanbore;

There's a lot of gray area in the whole night-time outdoors deal. In the winter time, it's dark before I'm home, and when I go to work. So 100% of my outdoor time is in the night, basically, for a large portion of the year.

I like to observe wildlife at night, on well-lit full(ish) moons. Watching coyote, fox, and other critters hunt at night is fascinating. (Especially with snow cover, when they're more easy to see and track)

I guess the line a fellow has to draw is how much of my "living" does one want to sacrifice for safety?

I feel more secure when I am armed, than when I am not, but no less alert. Being armed doesn't give one a reason to lower the alertness factor.

I like the fact you pointed out cameras; I have 6 with IR capability, but they're on entrances and blind spots - didn't have one trained on my trailer. It's an 8 camera DVR rig, so I can add a couple more. I already knew what was clear before stepping outside, at least I knew no one was waiting on the other side of the door I went through, or on the side of the house I went down to circle over to the trailer.

My flood light wasn't tripped on the driveway - I actually triggered it when I approached. But instead of lowering my awareness, it spiked it. I suspected the light was knocked out or burned out until I triggered it - normally, our prodigious and very large racoons keep the driveway lit up most of the night.

The motion lights are wired to a kill switch so I can shut them off before I go out if I want to exit in darkness.

My wife did the exact right thing; heard a noise and immediately came indoors to get me. At least she didn't go poking her scrawny butt over in to the unknown dark places.. she weighs a buck 15 soaking wet - the dog she was letting out to pee is bigger than she is. Empty handed, she's an easy target.

Been trying to get her to carry her 38 when she goes out at night, but so far haven't got the right message through her thick skull.

 

[WardenWolf]

Well, if it's night time, and in a trailer where there's NO light such that you can't even see into it, it's a pretty safe bet that it's NOT a human since humans need more light to see than an animal does. A meth head would at least need a flashlight, which you'd see evidence of before even reaching the trailer door. Basically, you'd know if it was a human before you got into a dangerous situation.

Also, do NOT wear a headlamp, for several reasons. One, it makes your head the target. Two, it's not easily turned on and off so you have to leave it on, giving away your position far in advance. Three, it takes away your own night vision so it's harder to see things outside the beam.