Browning BAR Advice

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TexasEd

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I have an opportunity to buy one of two Browning BAR rifles.

1. Browning BAR Belgium 308 - Mint!
2. Browning BAR newer alloy receiver 20 barrel carbine 308 - Mint!

The price is about the same.

Is there any big differnce between the two. Any thoughts or time in the field with either of these rifles your advice is welcomed. Thanks.
 
The BAR is a beautiful rifle. I bought a Belgium Safari grade in .25-06 brand new about a year ago. I ended up selling it because I could never get it to group. I got so many compliments on that gun and I was sad to see it leave. But it was too pretty to take the woods and it wouldn't shoot worth a darn so it was really only good for looking at. Others have had accuracy problems as well, but I think the gun is accurate as a whole. It's just my luck to get one that wasn't. As long as it will group, I don't think you'll have any reason to be unhappy with the Belgium.
 
They are all beautiful rifles. The steel receivered versions are no fun to carry afield - they are HEAVY.

If the price was good, I would be very interested in Door Number Two, Monte.... :)
 
First time I've EVER heard of a Browning not grouping!..............I own three BARs......two in '06, one in .338........all three will shoot nearly as well as my 1947 made M/70, holding under an inch at a hundred.

Two of those rifles, one of the '06's and the .338 are alloy framed guns and are truly a LOT easier to carry. The alloy '06 is the 20" bbld model and is probably the snappiest handling deer rifle I have ever used.......just fits me I guess. Recoil in all three is quite light compared to a bolt gun in the same caliber and even the .338 is easy shooting. From what I've seen, the BAR as a design will easily hold it's own with any bolt action on the current market.

My steel framed rifle is an older classic Belgium model, but as conservative as I am I've gotta say the newer designs are a worthy improvement......especially with regard to action takedown and bolt release mechanism.

Put a good piece of glass on that .308 and you won't be disappointed.
 
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Check all the other posts on this board regarding BARs and you will notice that is the number one complaint about those guns.
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It's funny, the number one praise of these guns is their accuracy as well. Ammo selection may be more important than with a bolt action, not sure what the problem is.

I'm in the accurate camp. I have a Safari in .30-06 that's a tack driver.

As for the OP, get the alloy, the Belgians are indeed quite a bit heavier.
 
Check all the other posts on this board regarding BARs and you will notice that is the number one complaint about those guns.
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You're right on with that. A quick search of this forum will give plenty of examples. As I mentioned, I don't think the majority of the BARS have an accuracy problem, but I know there are plenty that do....including the one that I owned. I use a lead sled for sighting in and the shots went from one side of the page to the exact opposite without any adjustments. It was a .25-06 so it had very little recoil so I knew I wasn't flinching. I shot my .300 mag Pro Hunter right afterwards and could put in some tight groups. A lot of people say that adjusting the forend nut will help with accuracy problems, but it didn't seem to in my case.
 
My experience with 3 different Belgium/Portugal BAR's is excellent accuracy. 1" -1.5" with factory ammo is common. I no longer use them because they're too pretty and heavy for hunting IMO. But I can appreciate fine craftsmanship.

The BAR is a beautiful rifle. I bought a Belgium Safari grade in .25-06
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Olympus
No offense but the Belgium Monacher is used in reference to guns not only made in Belgium but also assembled in Belgium. The last 20 years or so they've been made in Belgium assembled in Portugal. The Belgium assembled guns are more collectable, slimmer, and lighter. The receiver is narrower and flares out to the wrist. Not a big deal but I see guys on Gunbroker selling brand new guns listed as "Belgium BAR" and that's misleading. By those standards any BAR would be a Belgium BAR.
 
I have the light weight stalker in .308 and 300WSM. The 300 has the BOSS, and it is an exceptionally accurate gun. The .308 can be good with the right loads, but not as good as the BOSS. Light weight is better in the field, especially on the way home.
 
"By those standards any BAR would be a Belgium BAR."

Any? What about the ones made in Japan starting in 1977 when they stopped making them in Belgium. My father had one in .280 Rem and it was every bit as nice as my uncle's first year Belgian .30-06. I'm still first in line to get the .30-06 when he stops using it.

I didn't know they'd moved the BAR production back to Belgium. Learn something new every day.

John
 
JohnBT

I have never seen or heard of a Japanese made BAR. If they produced them there it wasn't long cause early 80's guns I know are Belgium/Portugal. In any case it doesn't change the fact that people advertise Belgium/Portugal guns as "Belgium made" when really the Belgium BAR's that are highly regarded are both made and assembled in Belgium at Fabrique Nationale.

Are you sure you're not referring to the BAR .22's. I believe those were produced in Japan.
 
Horsemany said:
Are you sure you're not referring to the BAR .22's. I believe those were produced in Japan.
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The line of .22's was never part of the "BAR" product line. Those were simply called "Browning Semi Auto 22".


But I'm with you, I've never seen a Japanese made BAR. I have heard here and there that they were made in Japan for a short period, but I've never seen one in person.
 
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http://http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=136515359

The line of .22's was never part of the "BAR" product line. Those were simply called "Browning Semi Auto 22"
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Texasrifleman

Here's a BAR .22. I used to own one. THey said "BAR" all over them. THey're actually kind of rare. The "Browning Semi Auto 22" you refer to is a John Browning design with the tiny forend. They are still in current production and should not be confused with BAR .22's. I can send pics of that if there's any doubt.
 
Here's a BAR .22. I used to own one. THey said "BAR" all over them. THey're actually kind of rare.
Click to expand...


Well I'll be. Thanks! I've never seen or heard of one of those.

Was it a nice gun?

Thanks for showing me that.
 
www.nighthawkpublications.com/journal/432/journal_3.htm

"America's Greatest Deer Rifles with Steve Barnett"

"6) Browning BAR in either the .30-06 or .270 calibers - Introduced in 1967, Browning manufactured the BAR in Belgium until 1976. After 1976, Browning USA moved its production to Japan. The BARs made in Belgium seem to have a certain mystique about them, even though the quality of the guns didn't change when manufacturing moved to Japan. The Belgium-made guns, in mint condition, will sell for $600 to $800, according to caliber. But the guns made in Japan from 1977 until today seem to have no appreciation. However, I believe the Japanese-made BARs will begin to appreciate in the future."
 
The BAR 22 was made in Japan by Miroku from 1977-1985. They also made a deluxe version with an engraved silver-colored receiver.

John
 
if your gonna hunt with it by all means get the carbine I have one and love no problems with accuracy or functioning Also had 2 in 30-06 and 7 mag the 30-06 would shoot 3/4 inch groups easily but much to pretty to hunt with.
 
Belgium made guns have the mystique about them and command higher prices but for rarity the Japanese made ones are worth lots more...

I'd take the Belgique...
 
Anybody know what years they made Japanes BAR's? (not the .22's)

They must be rare cause I've never seen or heard of one til this post.
 
The one I had in 30-06 got about a 2" group at best with Federal Fusion ammo. About 2 1/2"-3" with Federal Soft Points. I talked to several others who also had them and they said the same thing. I just recently saw one for sale just like mine was and I asked him what kind of groups he got. His answer was 2" groups at 100 yards. That's about what mine did. It was fine for a hunting rifle but I wasn't at all impressed for target shooting. Other than the fact I wasn't happy with 2" groups it was a really nice feeling gun that I really liked the looks of. I've also talked to several others that have had problems with getting good groups. Then on the other hand I've talked to a few people that have them and get groups under an inch or around an inch. One gunsmith I talked to that's had several BAR's told me if you use 2 piece rings instead of 1 piece ones that you can get about 1/2" smaller groups out of it. I never tried putting two piece rings on mine.

Overall the gun was pretty nice other than the fact it wasn't very accurate. As said though it was fine for a hunting gun.

To be honest I've talked to more guys who have the accuracy mine did that I've talked to of guys who have them and have shot good groups.

Here are some targets I shot with the one I had.
This is with the Federal Fusions. This is one of the smaller targets on one of those huge targets with one big one in the middle and 4 smaller ones on each corner. Each block is a inch.
FederalFusion150grain.jpg

Now this is with the Federal Soft Points
Federal150grainsoftpoints.jpg

As you can see not all that impressive. These were at 100 yards off of sand bags.
 
How often were you cleaning the bore? Did you clean the copper occasionally? What condition is the crown in? etc. etc. BAR's have a reputation for being as accurate as an average bolt gun. My 7mmRM BAR has a one piece Burris/Browning base and it has shot around 1" groups it's whole life with Fed./Win. factory ammo. The one's I owned prior shot just as well.

Federal Fusion's are quickly earning a reputation for poor accuracy due to being unevenly plated with copper vs. cup and core jackets.

The real gripe with BAR's is weight IMO. I have no experience with the new aluminum longtrac/shortrac BAR's but I was told by my gunshop they don't quite as good as the original steel receiver models.
 
I cleaned the bore until patches came out looking new. I kept it like that. I used Wipe Out to get the copper out. The crown looked good to me and didn't seem to have any rough spots in it.

I've tried many kinds of ammo in it and the Federal Fusions grouped the best. I tried 165 grain or is it 168 I think it's 165 grain Remington Core Lokts, 150 grain Winchester Silver tips, 150 grain Winchester Ballistic silver tips, 150 grain Winchester Power Points, Federal 150 grain soft points, and Federal Fusion 150 grain ammo. I also tried 165 grain Winchester soft points. Out of all of those the Fusions above grouped the best. The Winchester Ballistic tips did horrible. They were all over a 8" target. I couldn't keep them in one spot.

That gun had a one piece Leupold base and a Burris Fullfield II 3x9x40mm scope though.

I finally thought maybe something was wrong with the gun but I've talked to quite a few guys that have had them and also said theirs wasn't accurate either and that if I was getting 2" groups I was doing great. Then I've talked to some who say theirs shoot MOA.


Is there a way to get these things to shoot better? It was a good gun and I wouldn't mind another if it wasn't for the fact that I like stuff that's accurate.
 
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