BS In A Gun Shop...Again

[Confederate]

This isn't an unusual story, but last week I was in a local gun shop and the salesman was talking to a lady who was wanting to buy her first handgun. Apparently, one of her friends recommended a revolver and she was looking at a Ruger SP-101. She also was clearly smitten by it. The salesman, however, was intent on selling her a Glock 9mm.

I had to bite my tongue to keep from interrupting, but this guy was clearly not going to sell this woman what she wanted. She kept picking up the Ruger and looking at it while he was spouting off about the advantages of an automatic pistol she could barely cock and one without a safety. When she complained that she wasn't comfortable with the gun (and I'm not either), he explained that he was a certified instructor and that the store offered courses in handgun training.

The story ends predictably. The woman left the store saying she would think about it. The salesman lost a sale by not selling the woman what she clearly wanted but couldn't purchase. Nothing she said could get past the expertise of the salesman, who ended up shelving both guns.

It was all I could do to keep from jumping in and telling her that her friend was right. The Glock is for experts, and every time a police department or a government agency switches from other guns to Glocks, accidental discharges increase significantly. If one is not familiar with the weapon, one must keep the chamber empty and cock it only when there's a need. If one cocks it, it's like having a cocked revolver lying around!

I ended up keeping my big nose out of it, but I stewed all day long about this guy and how he could have sold this woman the gun she wanted, and most likely should have had. The most I could do was pick up the Ruger and look at it when she put it down, completely ignoring the Glock.

Do any of you have similar stories??

 

[Dr.Mall Ninja]

I have went into stores, wanting to look at several different models of 1911s, all the guy wanted to do is sell me a glock, I will never buy from guys like that.

 

[230therapy]

It was all I could do to keep from jumping in and telling her that her friend was right. The Glock is for experts, and every time a police department or a government agency switches from other guns to Glocks, accidental discharges increase significantly. If one is not familiar with the weapon, one must keep the chamber empty and cock it only when there's a need. If one cocks it, it's like having a cocked revolver lying around!

Don't be ignorant like the salesman.

The problem is not the Glock. The problem is the "Lowest Common Denominator" mentality promoted by police departments. They do not take their firearms proficiency seriously and the gun is just something on their belt.

 

[OldmanFCSA]

I would have stuck my large nose into the situation and backed-up the lady.
The salesMAN was wrong.

He lost a sale due to his attitude, but she was correct in leaving to find another store.

 

[Confederate]

Don't be ignorant like the salesman. The problem is not the Glock. The problem is the "Lowest Common Denominator" mentality promoted by police departments. They do not take their firearms proficiency seriously and the gun is just something on their belt.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on the Glock. Even so, I will grant you that a Glock can be used safely and effectively by police and civilians if they are adequately trained. That conceded, I maintain that the salesman should have sold the woman what she wanted and what would have been the best choice for her home defense.

I don't recommend Glocks to anyone because they don't have safeties. They're for experts, and I'm not an expert enough to want to carry or use them. I greatly prefer cock and lock weapons -- but even then I wouldn't recommend one for this woman.

Once the Glock is cocked, it's as dangerous as a cocked revolver. Can one be trained to safely use a cocked revolver? Sure. Using the rules we all know, we wouldn't touch the trigger and we would treat the gun as though it was loaded at all times.

But I wouldn't feel comfortable with a cocked revolver in my drawer; neither would I feel comfortable with a cocked Glock.

I have trained with a Glock and it's a great gun. Very accurate. But I was appalled by the lack of a safety. People aren't always careful. They get sleepy or medicated. The Glock is just too much of a danger in my opinion. It's not an issue of one of us being right and the other wrong; it's a matter of what we feel comfortable with. That's why I would never recommend a Glock for a newbe, or even an experienced shooter.

 

[HDCamel]

In my, albeit limited, experience with gun sales, Glocks pretty much sell themselves. There's virtually no reason to try to push one on someone.
He must have actually believed the BS he was spouting. Or he was trying to sell a gun AND get a new student for his safety course.

 

[41]

Once the Glock is cocked, it's as dangerous as a cocked revolver

I'm not trying to be too nit picky, but Glocks are not fully cocked until the trigger is being pulled. When you rack the slide it partially cocks, but the striker is not far enough reward to cause a discharge if it is released from this semi cocked position. So a "cocked" glock is more like a double action with the hammer down. It just has a lighter trigger pull than most double actions, but this is partially negated by a trigger safety.

However I do believe that the salesman should have sold her the sp-101 if that is the gun that the lady wanted, and felt comfortable with.

 

[garyh9900]

This isn't an unusual story, but last week I was in a local gun shop and the salesman was talking to a lady who was wanting to buy her first handgun. Apparently, one of her friends recommended a revolver and she was looking at a Ruger SP-101. She also was clearly smitten by it. The salesman, however, was intent on selling her a Glock 9mm.

I had to bite my tongue to keep from interrupting, but this guy was clearly not going to sell this woman what she wanted. She kept picking up the Ruger and looking at it while he was spouting off about the advantages of an automatic pistol she could barely cock and one without a safety. When she complained that she wasn't comfortable with the gun (and I'm not either), he explained that he was a certified instructor and that the store offered courses in handgun training.

The story ends predictably. The woman left the store saying she would think about it. The salesman lost a sale by not selling the woman what she clearly wanted but couldn't purchase. Nothing she said could get past the expertise of the salesman, who ended up shelving both guns.

It was all I could do to keep from jumping in and telling her that her friend was right. The Glock is for experts, and every time a police department or a government agency switches from other guns to Glocks, accidental discharges increase significantly. If one is not familiar with the weapon, one must keep the chamber empty and cock it only when there's a need. If one cocks it, it's like having a cocked revolver lying around!

I ended up keeping my big nose out of it, but I stewed all day long about this guy and how he could have sold this woman the gun she wanted, and most likely should have had. The most I could do was pick up the Ruger and look at it when she put it down, completely ignoring the Glock.

Do any of you have similar stories??

Glocks are no more dangerous than any other weapon. Any rise in the rate of accidental discharges is because users are not following the basic rules of gun safety. If you follow the rules a glock will not accidentally discharge. Any loaded gun can fire if you don't follow the rules, regardless of the type or brand.

 

[Jeff82]

BS In A Gun Forum...Again

Once the Glock is cocked, it's as dangerous as a cocked revolver.

Please don't speak about that which you haven't a clue. That's as bad as that salesman. You both are giving bad info.

ETA: And the article you linked is nothing short of yellow journalism and a hit piece on Glock (which I expect from the WP). DC police would be dangerous to themselves and others with any weapon they carry. They are simply not trained and too stupid to obey basic firearm safety rules.

 

[hAkron]

I wouldn't get all bent out of shape on the Glock not having a traditional selectable on off type of safety, because the SP101 doesn't have one either. It is a subject of debate as to which of the 2 has a more simple manual of arms. Ultimately the sales person was probably wrong, but maybe something in his intuition told him the SP wasn't right for this woman. Right or wrong, I have more respect for a salesman who isn't just looking to make a buck and tries to guide a customer away from making a bad purchase even to the detriment of a sale. Just my 2¢

 

[tikka-guy]

While it may be true that a glock isn't fully cocked until the trigger is pulled, comparing the trigger pull of a glock to the DA trigger pull of a revolver is, for lack of a better word, ridiculous.

Glocks are no more dangerous than any other weapon. Any rise in the rate of accidental discharges is because users are not following the basic rules of gun safety.

That's like saying driving 120 mph is the same as driving 30 mph. Both are completely safe, as long as you don't hit something... which is a lot easier to do at 120.

 

[garyh9900]

While it may be true that a glock isn't fully cocked until the trigger is pulled, comparing the trigger pull of a glock to the DA trigger pull of a revolver is, for lack of a better word, ridiculous.



That's like saying driving 120 mph is the same as driving 30 mph. Both are completely safe, as long as you don't hit something... which is a lot easier to do at 120.

I didn't compare the trigger pull of a glock to a DA trigger pull of a revolver. I said they were no more dangerous than any other gun. I personally feel a heavy trigger pull is more dangerous than a light one(in overall function and use). As for glocks, most have a ~5.5 trigger pull. Its not going to go off by touching it, looking at it, breathing on it, or anything else like that. The only way a properly working glock will fire is if you pull the trigger, as will all guns w/o a manual safety. Follow the basic rules of gun safety and you have nothing to worry about. If you don't or can't follow those rules, you don't need a gun. Every single time I have my glock out of its holster I am consciously aware of where my finger is, and I remain so until its re-holstered.

 

[mljdeckard]

The correct gun is the one she is most comfortable with.

Having said that, I usually steer beginners towards a Glock. She can rack the slide just fine if someone shows her how to do it correctly. There is nothing at all wrong with a Glock for beginners.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I'm going to have to agree with people saying that the Glock is not inherently more dangerous than any other gun. The first semi that I ever carried was a Glock 19, and I have never had an AD/ND. It isn't the gun that is dangerous, it is the people that carry it. Keep the 4 rules in your head and follow them and the gun won't go bang.

The Glock is good at what it does - go bang when the trigger is pulled.

The fact that it doesn't have a manual safety doesn't bother me, I actually prefer it that way. It is one less thing to have to disengage when your adrenaline is running.

 

[HDCamel]

There are different schools of thought for beginner firearms. In that pawn shop I worked in, I tended to steer beginners toward revolvers. Revolvers are very natural guns in terms of ergonomics, shootability, and manual of arms. Most autos aren't.

I wouldn't go so far as to call Glocks "expert" weapons, but I would tentatively call them "intermediate".

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Do any of you have similar stories??

First off I do not agree a that a Glock is dangerous. Just because there is no manual safety doesn't make it dangerous.

As for a story, my local gun shop owner does the same thing only in reverse. When a lady walks in asking for a small semi-auto he tries like anything to push a J frame revolver on her. My guy really means well but he needs to stop telling someone what they should own unless they ask for recommendations. most if not all do leave the shop without buying anything.

 

[monet61]

I respectfully agree with everything poster number 14 said.

 

[mljdeckard]

And realize.....the Ruger revolver doesn't have a manual safety either.

 

[OldCavSoldier]

I think the discussion went off on the Glock tangent. Back to subject, the gun salesman was not oriented to the needs of his customer. He forgot the #1 rule in sales: The customer is always right.

Hopefully, his actions did not completely turn off the lady looking at the revolver. I think the best course of action for Confederate would have been to wait until the lady left the gun counter and mention to her that she was/is not wrong in her desire to purchase the SP101, and also possibly mention another gun shop she could go to and get better service. That is what I did in a similar situation years ago, when the wonk behind the counter wanted to sell a petite 20-something a .45ACP when she was telling him the entire time that she wanted to look at .22LR auto-loaders. She insisted that she wanted a gun to use to practice with and to build up her skills and comfort level.

After I told her that I thought she was doing it the right way and handed her my card, she turned around and went back to the counter and got another salesman to show her the Browning and Ruger .22LR pistols. She eventually left with a very nice Browning BuckMark, a couple of extra magazines, and a couple of bricks of ammo.

 

[Smokin Gator]

Glocks are only for experts? Come on. A stock Glock trigger in no way compares to a decent double action revolver that's cocked and ready to shoot in single action. They are not the same. Most police departments view it the exact opposite of what you're stating. Although a single action 1911 has manual safeties, once it's ready to shoot, you generally have a lighter, crisper trigger pull then a stock Glock. That's why most departments would rather have officers facing a suspect with a Glock and it's longer trigger pull vs a single action semi auto and it's much shorter trigger pull. A lot of agencies only allow their Swat officers or special units to carry single action semi autos because they get more training than regular street officers. Mark

 

[Okie45]

So basically about every thread on this site ends up being a Glock discussion?

I ran into a similar situation a few years back. I wanted a S&W Mod 66. The gun shop said good luck finding that, and kept trying to sell me a Taurus. I drove 45 min up the road to my old reliable gunshop and they had 2 Mod 66 in stock, a 4inch barrel, and a 6 inch barrel. I guess I had good luck that day. I stopped in the same gunshop again looking for a Ruger M77, he had what i wanted, but wanted sell me the "superior" Tikka rifle instead (his words, not mine). I once again left the store empty handed. Needless to say, that shop never got my buisness again.

I'd be intrested to see the profit margin a store makes selling a Glock vs a Ruger SP 101. I've had Glocks pushed on me more than once while handgun shopping, and it has really turned me off to them. Do stores make that much of a profit selling them? I seem to run into alot of salesmen like the one mentioned anymore. Maybe thats why buying guns online has become so popular. I used to enjoy the old time gun shop owners talking about being in WW2, shooting BARs and M1s, talking about how far scopes, bullets, and guns have come along. I will always give my buisness where it is appreciated. If I ask an employee thier opinion on something, I want to hear it. If not, just sell me what I want. I don't want to hear which caliber is better, which gun is safer etc... I did my research, sell me the product I want.

 

[evan price]

Why should you- or I?- care that a gun store lost a sale due to pushy and overly-opinionated salespeople trying to force a customer to buy what they don't want? Stuff like this happens, it's not your store or your transaction, move along.

 

[Bubba613]

I would have stuck my large nose into the situation and backed-up the lady.
The salesMAN was wrong.

I hate when customers intrude on sales. It's none of your business.

It is true the salesman was wrong. Like that never happens. The Ruger is a sucky gun and I have been offered many more SPs on trade than Glocks. That said, at the end of the day it is the customer's money.

 

[oldfool]

OPs mistake was mentioning the magic "G" word, and now all here who equate that with with "God" have their panties in a wad over the implied heresy.

I would have done what OldCav did
and if the shop owner/salesman didn't like that, tough titty
I never once walked into any store expecting them to hand me their money; I expect to hand them some of mine. If they don't want it, I can spend it elsewhere.

PS
more than a few of the passionate sales people here ought pay closer attention to what ArchAngelCD said

 

[alsaqr]

I hate when customers intrude on sales. It's none of your business.

+1
A person should never miss a chance to mind their business.