Buck and ball...

[Malice]

I was smoking a cigarette on my porch today after reading a book about the civil war and my thoughts were wandering...

The thing about the Civil War that strikes me is the whole deal about it being so deadly because of the combination of new world ordinance and old world line up and take it like men combat.

And my thoughts wandered...

And I started thinking about buck & ball...

For anyone who doesnt know, this was a load they used in muzzle loaders that was a combination of a small-ish slug and a bit of buckshot, sort of the best of both worlds.

And I wonder, why is this not used in modern shotguns? I think it would be a great self defense load. Like a half ounce slug and a half ounce of #1 or so buckshot.

Any comments? Do any of the small specialty loaders load this that I do not know about?

 

[TrapperReady]

a combination of a small-ish slug and a bit of buckshot, sort of the best of both worlds.

It could also be looked at as a compromise which didn't perform especially well at either task. I know that these loads have been considered and tested at various times, but if they truly performed well, then their use would be widespread today.

Here's a link to an older thread on a similar topic.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Malice,

"Technology drives tactics."

Actually it was older smoothbore muskets (or the cut-down double barrel shotguns of the Confederate cavalry) that were loaded with buck and ball. ( http://www.oldsouthantiques.com/osnfsp6.htm ) Even so, most shotguns were loaded with buckshot only ( http://www.cowanauctions.com/past_sales_view_item.asp?itemid=30611 )

What made the late war so deadly for the traditional massed formations that were employed was the development and predominant use by both sides of the RIFLED musket, firing Minie' balls. The rifled musket had an effective range for aimed fire multiples greater than the smoothbore ( http://www.eclectichistorian.net/RifleMusket/index.html#Minies ).

Problem was, the infantry tactics of the era did not evolve sufficiently to offset this new technology. Oh, the 'manual' was rewritten of course ( http://www.usregulars.com/hardeehome.html ). But all it did in essence was to lengthen the pace of infantry on the march, and increase the number of paces per minute. What the new tactics could not do was move masses of infantry multiple times faster than the previous version, and so formations were exposed to volley fire from their opponents for much longer periods of time. ( http://www.usregulars.com/drill_history.html )

It was the inexorable march of technology- which made it suicidal to engage at ranges where buck and ball could be effective- that forced the use of this load into the pages of military history.

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/1864/weapons_part_2.htm

http://www.cr.nps.gov/seac/fierydawn/fd-index.htm

http://www.cr.nps.gov/seac/cavclash/intro.htm#small

http://www.cr.nps.gov/seac/ancientmuses/CD/04_pate/ (Martin Pate's paintings of the calvary fight at Moore's Crossroads hang in the post library where I used to work at Ft. Bragg, NC)

Oh, and it is still loaded for shotguns by the "specialty shotgun ammunition" folks- at $3 plus a round... http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__17/Specialized_Shotshell_Ammuniti/specialized_shotshell_ammuniti.html .

HTH,

lpl/nc

 

[Dixie Slugs]

Buck and Ball?........Fact or fiction? Having examined some original miltary buck and ball cartridges issued to some CSA Regt's that were still issued (or by choice) smoothbores......I find the load to be a combo of one large round and and buckshot (about #00). What I saw was made at the Augusta, Ga. plant.
Was it issued? I find records the the 25th Georgia, among others, used it quite well by shooting the famed Irish Brigade to pieces at Fredrickburg (sp).
My great-grandfather's older brother, Lt. Norville Robertson Carter, rode with Gen. Bedford Forrest. Their favorite long gun was a short double barrel 12 ga. made(converted) by Terry in Texas. There is a family letter stating they were having problems getting percussion caps (#11?) for their shotguns and handguns......being shipped, (or slipped through) the Union lines, musket caps.
The records at Augusta shows that besides the regular Minie ball loads, there was large quantities of buck & ball and buckshot loads made and shipped.
Here at Dixie Slugs, we tested buck & ball loads......found the were not suitable for hunting purpose, but would have been nasty while facing a charge from opposing forces........James