I will be purchasing a tactical type shotgun soon for home defense and I have been wondering whether it is best to load a buckshot-slug-buckshot, etc. line in the tube or just use buckshot. What are the benefits of supplementing my shotgun's diet with slugs?
Buckshot+Slugs or Just Buckshot
- Thread starter Ben86
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BlacklabelOP
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I have both, mostly 00.. Less penetration thru walls than slugs for HD.
Slugs I keep around for longer range needs ( shooting thru car doors ,bullet proof glass ect... )
Slugs I keep around for longer range needs ( shooting thru car doors ,bullet proof glass ect... )
I'd only use a candy cane load if I were absolutely positive I'd need to shoot someone close up, then far away, then close up, then far away, etc. In other words, never.
If you do anticipate possibly needing a slug, you should keep the shotgun loaded with buckshot, with room for 1 more round in the tube, and have slugs in a side saddle or other carrier. Then if at any point you need a slug, you can put one in the magazine and pump.
If you do anticipate possibly needing a slug, you should keep the shotgun loaded with buckshot, with room for 1 more round in the tube, and have slugs in a side saddle or other carrier. Then if at any point you need a slug, you can put one in the magazine and pump.
scratcherky
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#1-#4 Buck gets my vote.
wnycollector
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It is loaded with 7 fiocchi low recoil 00 buck. I have 2 slugs on the butt cuff of my maverick 88 just in case.
The fiocchi 00 patterns ~6" in my cyl bore shotgun @ 12 yards. I suggest that you buy a box or 2 of several different manufacturers buck and see how they pattern in YOUR shotgun.
The fiocchi 00 patterns ~6" in my cyl bore shotgun @ 12 yards. I suggest that you buy a box or 2 of several different manufacturers buck and see how they pattern in YOUR shotgun.
So I guess slugs don't make much sense inside the house for most general purposes. Do slugs often overpenetrate targets?
Different loads of buck shot can pattern differently...I never realized that. Thanks for making that point.
Different loads of buck shot can pattern differently...I never realized that. Thanks for making that point.
possum
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you should pattern your buckshot in your shotgun first and foremost. In my shotgun/ ammo combo i get a 12" spread at 15yds, and though there is no way that i could be a while 15yds from someone n my house it is good to know, so for hd buckshot only for me, if i did have to take a shot over 15yds then i would use my slugs of choice which are accurate even out of a smooth bore, and poa out to 25yds, maybe more, i plan to try them out to 100yds later.
tigers1829
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Load Testing
Shooting Illustrated recently had an interesting article about shotgun defense and there was an training place either Blackwater or Gunsite (not sure) that did a test on the effects of different loads for defense.
According to the test the light loads like birdshot had enough power to penetrate about halfway through the wall of a house. While slugs and larger buck like 00 or 000 would completely penetrate an average wall of a home. They also mention that buckshot is only good for defense at no more than 20-25 yards which is fine for home defense but they recommend using the light buckshot loads for defense or risk complete penetration of the walls of your home which would put your family and bystanders at risk.
I would not recommend using slug at all for home defense that is more of a combat appropriate load rather than defense where liability is a huge factor.
I am curious to test the different buckshot loads on a mach wall myself just to see how much penetration really occurs. I would recommend using the lightest load possible to bring on the pain.
Shooting Illustrated recently had an interesting article about shotgun defense and there was an training place either Blackwater or Gunsite (not sure) that did a test on the effects of different loads for defense.
According to the test the light loads like birdshot had enough power to penetrate about halfway through the wall of a house. While slugs and larger buck like 00 or 000 would completely penetrate an average wall of a home. They also mention that buckshot is only good for defense at no more than 20-25 yards which is fine for home defense but they recommend using the light buckshot loads for defense or risk complete penetration of the walls of your home which would put your family and bystanders at risk.
I would not recommend using slug at all for home defense that is more of a combat appropriate load rather than defense where liability is a huge factor.
I am curious to test the different buckshot loads on a mach wall myself just to see how much penetration really occurs. I would recommend using the lightest load possible to bring on the pain.
bobby n.
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id alternate starting with OO and then a slug then OO then a slug
Bonsai Doug
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Last year I bought a Remington 870 Express (18") for home defense.
Guy at the store recommended the first load be a Federal personal defense shot - 1 1/4 oz. of #2 shot.
The next three in the tube are 00.
Guy at the store recommended the first load be a Federal personal defense shot - 1 1/4 oz. of #2 shot.
The next three in the tube are 00.
mljdeckard
Member
The problem with candy-caning is that it assumes the kind of target you will see, and in which order. You might, for example, need to try to hit someone through a wall, and you would wish you didn't have a #4 in the chamber. (If you can even reasonably expect to remember to keep track in a fight.)
The odds are remote that you will need a slug. But then again, the odds are remote that you will need a gun at all. I would keep a slug around if I thought there was a need to shoot through a car or a refrigerator. I would probably put them in the back two spaces on a sidesaddle, and manually load them when the need arose. But understand, this is really looking past HD into SHTF.
The odds are remote that you will need a slug. But then again, the odds are remote that you will need a gun at all. I would keep a slug around if I thought there was a need to shoot through a car or a refrigerator. I would probably put them in the back two spaces on a sidesaddle, and manually load them when the need arose. But understand, this is really looking past HD into SHTF.
It's situation dependent. I see no reason to alternate loads ever as that presumes a known target set. Having slugs "on call" to load for specific shots might be good planning. Get a load of Buckshot (00 to 4Buck) and know how it patterns from that specific gun at various HD distances and then keep a few slugs available for specific shots.
My Rem 870 is loaded first to last with reduced recoil 00 Buck. In my current situation I wouldn't consider going to slugs at all and none are available. In another situation I might have a pair or two of slugs in a shell holder on my belt ready to go. 00 Buck not in the mag will be in a shot shell carrier on my belt. I don't like ammo in butt cuffs or sidesaddles as they upset the balance/feel of the gun and don't carry enough ammo. The shell carrier is used in Trap & Skeet.
As always: $.02, YMMV
My Rem 870 is loaded first to last with reduced recoil 00 Buck. In my current situation I wouldn't consider going to slugs at all and none are available. In another situation I might have a pair or two of slugs in a shell holder on my belt ready to go. 00 Buck not in the mag will be in a shot shell carrier on my belt. I don't like ammo in butt cuffs or sidesaddles as they upset the balance/feel of the gun and don't carry enough ammo. The shell carrier is used in Trap & Skeet.
As always: $.02, YMMV
76shuvlinoff
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Everyone mixes their own soup, my first round is a slug the rest is 00, I know it and I practice it and I never change it. Potential injury to neighbors is really a non issue where I live. I want the option to be a little surgical with the first round if I have to be and I believe a slug would dampen the spirit of an intruder even in body armor.
.02
.02
JImbothefiveth
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Consider this purchase first. A regular shotgun with more magazine capacity, a light, and a sling might be better.
Doc_Jude
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76shuvlinoff said:
Do you get a lot of b&e crooks wearing body armor? Curious.
inSight-NEO
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Personally, I think the use of slugs for HD is very problematic mainly due to vast over-penetration issues. I mean, are slugs really necessary within typical HD ranges? Now, I can see the need for slugs if you are law enforcement or are in a hostage rescue situation, but for HD...no way.
In terms of mixing up a "brew" of slugs and buckshot...bad idea. Unless your range time consists of using the EXACT configuration of slugs/buckshot you intend on maintaining for HD purposes, it would be very hard to keep track of whats what if/when the sh*t hits the fan. Even then, good luck keeping tabs on your ammo when under the enormous stress of an HD encounter. If you insist on using slugs for HD, might I suggest you keep buckshot in the tube and keep the slugs in a separate carrier of some type. Having a back-up plan is usually a good idea. But, IMO, mixing ammo types in order to facilitate this plan is generally a bad idea.
In terms of mixing up a "brew" of slugs and buckshot...bad idea. Unless your range time consists of using the EXACT configuration of slugs/buckshot you intend on maintaining for HD purposes, it would be very hard to keep track of whats what if/when the sh*t hits the fan. Even then, good luck keeping tabs on your ammo when under the enormous stress of an HD encounter. If you insist on using slugs for HD, might I suggest you keep buckshot in the tube and keep the slugs in a separate carrier of some type. Having a back-up plan is usually a good idea. But, IMO, mixing ammo types in order to facilitate this plan is generally a bad idea.
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76shuvlinoff
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Fair question
Fortunately I have not had to experience any b&e crooks period, and I would imagine the likelihood of body armor on one is low but then so is the b&e in the first place. That is true for most people that have elected to have an HD weapon is it not? Since my situation allows me to choose a slug up front then for the reasons I stated above I wouldn't want what I perceive to be less. I don't believe only the white hats have access to personal protective equipment.
My fall back logic is it is certainly better to have a plan and a direction than not.
Ditto on slugs. That's all I have loaded. I have a couple of boxes of #4 for situational use, but unless something unusual comes up I'm loading 1oz soft lead hollow points. Here is my reasoning.
1) I live in the country. I have no neighbors to worry about hitting if a round goes through an exterior wall.
2) I have no kids. My wife and I sleep in the same room. I'm likely to know where she is.
3) The argument "buckshot spreads and you're more likely to get a hit" is stupid crap. At interior ranges buck is going to spread a couple of inches. Nothing you miss with a slug is going to catch meaningful shot with a 2" pattern at 18 feet.
4) If I DO have to worry about my wife or my cats in the house I'm not worried about blowing a slug, or shot, through a wall. I'm worried about being able to put my slug on target so I don't have to worry about where it might go.
5) No badguy hit with a 1oz soft lead hollow point is getting back up. Ever.
John
1) I live in the country. I have no neighbors to worry about hitting if a round goes through an exterior wall.
2) I have no kids. My wife and I sleep in the same room. I'm likely to know where she is.
3) The argument "buckshot spreads and you're more likely to get a hit" is stupid crap. At interior ranges buck is going to spread a couple of inches. Nothing you miss with a slug is going to catch meaningful shot with a 2" pattern at 18 feet.
4) If I DO have to worry about my wife or my cats in the house I'm not worried about blowing a slug, or shot, through a wall. I'm worried about being able to put my slug on target so I don't have to worry about where it might go.
5) No badguy hit with a 1oz soft lead hollow point is getting back up. Ever.
John
I considered buying a regular "sporting" shotgun and "tacticalizing" it. But I find 26-28" to be cumbersome inside.
I keep a Ruger 10/22 with a red dot sight and 25 round mag in case the hordes of leftist rabbits ever invade my house. A .270 just wouldn't be practical, ammo is so expensive, rabbits are so many.
After looking at what the guys at "Box'O Truth" have put through dry wall I don't trust anything not to overpenetrate that stuff. Look that this: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
Bird shot is out of the question for me. I can't be confident with something that may or may not penetrate to vital organs.
I seem to remember a case where a guy took a few slugs, and a barage of handgun fire and kept coming. It might have been in California??
I keep a Ruger 10/22 with a red dot sight and 25 round mag in case the hordes of leftist rabbits ever invade my house. A .270 just wouldn't be practical, ammo is so expensive, rabbits are so many.
After looking at what the guys at "Box'O Truth" have put through dry wall I don't trust anything not to overpenetrate that stuff. Look that this: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
Bird shot is out of the question for me. I can't be confident with something that may or may not penetrate to vital organs.
I seem to remember a case where a guy took a few slugs, and a barage of handgun fire and kept coming. It might have been in California??
VINTAGE-SLOTCARS
member
OO buck in the chamber and mag tube, slugs on the stock ready to give a good by kiss.
Said it before. Never a good idea to mix loads in the magazine. The pros don't do it and neither should you. It will affect your terminal performance, and may cause legal problems in the aftermath. The best in the world will get confused about which round is "up" and ready to go. And confused is something you do NOT want to be in a HD scenario. And confusion is the very devil to explain later, confusion is also a cornerstone of negliegence as defined in civil law.
Just use what you think is best for your situation and do not get fancy. Simpler is ALWAYS better where firearms are concerned. By the way, for HD, buckshot is almost always best, with slugs way behind except for open area scenarios, and birdshot is always for the birds. While I am ranting about ammo, never but NEVER, use any less lethal ammunition for HD. If you are morally incapable of killing someone, get a rolling pin, you have no business with a firearm. Just think about it, when the Abrams tank was being designed, there was much hand wringing about whether or not to make it a semi automatic gun. It was decided that the main gun would be a single shot because with the best trained crews in the world, there was concern that someone might forget which ammo was next to be fired-and this is with 3 highly trained professionals doing it!
OK, EOR (end of rant).
Just use what you think is best for your situation and do not get fancy. Simpler is ALWAYS better where firearms are concerned. By the way, for HD, buckshot is almost always best, with slugs way behind except for open area scenarios, and birdshot is always for the birds. While I am ranting about ammo, never but NEVER, use any less lethal ammunition for HD. If you are morally incapable of killing someone, get a rolling pin, you have no business with a firearm. Just think about it, when the Abrams tank was being designed, there was much hand wringing about whether or not to make it a semi automatic gun. It was decided that the main gun would be a single shot because with the best trained crews in the world, there was concern that someone might forget which ammo was next to be fired-and this is with 3 highly trained professionals doing it!
OK, EOR (end of rant).
T191032
Member
Stick to one thing,
For self-defense, too much "dutch loading" can bite you. Everyone's condition is different. You might be an apartment-dweller in an urban setting, where you got 6-20ft to work with (birdshot/buckshot) vs someone else, living in the country where a slug can reach out and "touch" a little further.
Go to www.findarticles.com search for Clint Smith and Shotguns, a good one is "Duck Guns for Defense" from Guns Magazine. He's done some of the "Ranging Shots" on Shotguns of late too (should be accessible via Findarticles). There is a Web Blast "Introduction to Home Defense," on the GUNS Magazine web at the moment, good info.
On the StoppingPower.Net Forum (Evan Marshall's site) the topic of shotgun fodder is discussed, always comes back to "buckshot" typically Evan's answer is "00 buck" [period].
For self-defense, too much "dutch loading" can bite you. Everyone's condition is different. You might be an apartment-dweller in an urban setting, where you got 6-20ft to work with (birdshot/buckshot) vs someone else, living in the country where a slug can reach out and "touch" a little further.
Go to www.findarticles.com search for Clint Smith and Shotguns, a good one is "Duck Guns for Defense" from Guns Magazine. He's done some of the "Ranging Shots" on Shotguns of late too (should be accessible via Findarticles). There is a Web Blast "Introduction to Home Defense," on the GUNS Magazine web at the moment, good info.
On the StoppingPower.Net Forum (Evan Marshall's site) the topic of shotgun fodder is discussed, always comes back to "buckshot" typically Evan's answer is "00 buck" [period].
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