Buckshot+Slugs or Just Buckshot

[md7]

hey ben86,
i see that you are from perk. there is a really good pawn shop about 45 minutes north of you in sumrall, ms. terry's pawn and trade. he is a good guy and can get anything you want new or used for very reasonable prices. he would definitly be worth checking out.

 

[md7]

oh, and i agree VINTAGE-SLOTCAR, 00 buck in the chamber and mag, slugs on the stock.
ymmv.

 

[Mannlicher]

I used to load 00 Buck, and carry slugs on a butt cuff. Now I just load slugs if I use a shotgun at all.

 

[dispatch55126]

I have 5 rounds of TAP 00 Buck sitting next to my shotgun for HD. I don't keep anything loaded because I have kids in the house.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

3) The argument "buckshot spreads and you're more likely to get a hit" is stupid crap. At interior ranges buck is going to spread a couple of inches. Nothing you miss with a slug is going to catch meaningful shot with a 2" pattern at 18 feet.

Correct.

I may be unusual, but for several years I belonged to a hunt club in Tidewater, Virginia. We hunted in thick, often swampy country with dogs -- and as a member, you had to attend a certain number of hunts a year. So I've seen a fair number of man-sized critters shot with shotguns. My Ithaca 37 wears a 20" Deerslayer barrel and is loaded with slugs for home defense.

 

[kmrcstintn]

http://tacticalshotgun.ca/

take a look here for loads of great info

 

[onebigelf]

My Ithaca 37 wears a 20" Deerslayer barrel and is loaded with slugs for home defense.

Yup. Using a 37 also. Did you know that if you hold the trigger back and just keep racking the slide the 37 will fire each time it locks closed? Talk about filling a hallway with hurt...

John

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Did you know that if you hold the trigger back and just keep racking the slide the 37 will fire each time it locks closed?

Yup. The newer ones won't do that -- lawyers at work, I guess.

 

[DownUnder1]

As for penetration concerns I think its pretty much all summed up here
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm

 

[exflatlander]

If you are just looking for a home defense, close-quarters/you just woke up and found someone in you house gun I see no need for slugs or 00 unless you plan on shooting through doors/walls.

Any quality bird/skeet/trap round will drop an intruder, be easier to shoot, and will not penetrate much past what it hits.

Plus the beauty of a shotgun is you don't have to be precise. Think of the damage a standard target load of 7 1/2 or 8 shot would do to an intruder at 10-15 feet fired at the upper chest/neck/head.

That said I keep my Nova with a supply of 00 and slugs but I would reach for my .45 first.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

My recommendation is to make up a wall with scrap 2X4s and sheet rock and shoot at it with your shotgun, using your chosen load from about 15 feet. You'll find some interesting things.

 

[inSight-NEO]

The argument "buckshot spreads and you're more likely to get a hit" is stupid crap. At interior ranges buck is going to spread a couple of inches. Nothing you miss with a slug is going to catch meaningful shot with a 2" pattern at 18 feet.

I agree, for the most part. However, that extra 1" or so just might be the difference between an injured BG or a dead one. Yes, sometimes an inch CAN make a difference. Either way, both slugs and 00 buck are devastating rounds..needless to say.

 

[PJR]

The best in the world will get confused about which round is "up" and ready to go. And confused is something you do NOT want to be in a HD scenario.

I know this from personal experience. I used to mix loads in my 870 until I had a encounter with a misbehaving black bear. We stared at each other at a distance of about 25 yards for a few minutes and I can recall thinking that there was probably a slug somewhere in the tube but I'd have to shoot more than once to get to it. Fortunately the bear wandered off.

Living in a rural area over penetration isn't an issue. My shotgun gets used a few times a year to dispatch vermin of various sizes most often small ones. For this purpose #4 buck is perfect and it's up first. The remainder of the magazine is filled with Brenneke slugs. If I have a need for something bigger than #4 I can eject the first round and not have to fumble with a sidesaddle or butt cuff.

 

[357wheelgunner]

Plus the beauty of a shotgun is you don't have to be precise. Think of the damage a standard target load of 7 1/2 or 8 shot would do to an intruder at 10-15 feet fired at the upper chest/neck/head.

I know what it would do, an aweful looking, but very much superficial and survivable wound unless the majority of the projectiles hit the neck or abdomen. Even then, an attacker has time to do whatever they feel like until their brain is deprived of oxygen, because nothing structural (bones, nervous system) has been damaged. Dick Cheney shot his buddy in the face, neck and chest at point blank range and the guy survived, and he was pretty old to start with.

People use gelaton tests to show how "deadly" birdshot is, because it can penetrate 4-6" in gelaton. That's not very objective, gelaton simulates flesh, but it doesn't simulate bones. ERs have seen numerous people shot in the chest at point blank range with birdshot, and none of the pellets penetrated to the vitals that sit a couple of inches below the skin. The pellets just kind of spread out when they hit bones, instead of smashing them like larger shot would do.

Birdshot, like a knife, will kill someone (sometimes). It's just not as likely to stop them, which is the point of an HD gun.

I don't know why people believe that there is a magic round that won't penetrate through a person or wall, but will stop them. Anything that won't go through flimsy drywall isn't likely to do much to a desperate and determined attacker.

I agree, for the most part. However, that extra 1" or so just might be the difference between an injured BG or a dead one. Yes, sometimes an inch CAN make a difference. Either way, both slugs and 00 buck are devastating rounds..needless to say.

That's why I love buckshot, because it allows me to be off center by an inch or two and still hit something crucial to stop a fight. It also won't penetrate as deeply as a single round out of a 9mm, .40, .45, .357 etc. meaning the buckshot balls will penetrate fewer layers of construction materials.

Buckshot is the perfect compromise.

 

[Fred Fuller]

I really am beginning to sound like a Johnny One Note lately- but the answer to this is training, training, training. No professional instructor I know of (and no, I don't know them all) recommends 'candy cane' or 'dutch' or whatever kind of loading you want to call putting mixed loads in the tubular magazine of a defensive shotgun. You need to know what's coming out of the muzzle every time you press the trigger- and in the adrenalin buzz of a tense situation, the vast majority of people cannot keep track of how many rounds they've fired out of a tubular magazine. In a good shotgun class, you will get to find this out for yourself, under no more pressure than being called on to perform various drills in front of 15 0r 20 other shooters. Think how much worse the pressure would be if you were fighting for your life... .

IMHO there IS a role for slugs in a defensive shotgun- just not mixed in the magazine willy-nilly with other loads. Here we keep only 00 buckshot in the magazines of the house guns, with only Brenneke KO slugs in the SideSaddles- just in case more range or penetration is called for. Instructor Louis Awerbuck loads only slugs- he says he isn't smart enough to keep up with more than one kind of ammo. Since a few months ago, my wife has been keeping only Brennekes in 'her' shotgun, the one she takes with us on the road when we travel. See, there's been this bear that keeps showing up at her parent's house in the Smokies, and in case B'rer Bear causes trouble she wants to be ready.

Everyone needs to make up their own minds what their particular circumstances require as far as self defense is concerned. But some clear thinking will definitely help in that regard. IMHO no one can choreograph their prospective gunfight precisely enough to allow for loading mixed kinds of ammunition in the tube in advance, any more than they can predict exactly when that gunfight will happen. Having a supply of slugs constantly available in the same place on the gun all the time, and being trained and practiced at performing a 'select slug' drill quickly upon demand, should pretty well cover any eventuality that might come along, however.

Stay Safe,

lpl

 

[arizona98tj]

I'm glad to see someone else mentioned training, training, and then more training.

My advice to the OP is to forget everything you read in this thread and go find a quality training facility. Take a 2 or 3 or 4 day class on defensive shotgun (the longer the class, the better). (then keep practicing on your own on a routine basis after that)

Once you have the training part finished, come back here and read this thread and temper what you have learned with the comments found here. I do believe you will arrive at a point where you are comfortable with the decisions you make regarding the defense of your home.

 

[berettashotgun]

"That said I keep my Nova with a supply of 00 and slugs but I would reach for my .45 first"

HAHAHAHAAHAHA

That is exactly the OPPOSITE of what I do...
I will only use my sidearm to fight my way to my shotgun/rifle.
Hear this out, I hunt birds - dove,quail,pheasant, and turkeys; I practice thru about 5 flats a year and hunt thru 2.5 flats of shells.
Some guys I hunt with shoot 24's and 25 very often, about every time to the club, yet they stink up the place dove hunting.
1k+ shotguns, all the right accessories barf and they still get a little frustrated and start missing shots they always make at the club.
My point is - stress induction WILL make you miss, short stroke a pump, forget to take the safety off, etc.......
Practice with anything and practice alot.
Then try it in the dark after being awoke from a sound sleep, betcha' you miss alot. Most everyone will.
I load up with slugs in one shotgun and #4 Hevishot turkey loads in the other. They are both berettas. I cannot ever seem to get a pump to work when I want to get off the second shot.
Hope I never -ever have to use them.

 

[CrankyOldGuy]

"I cannot ever seem to get a pump to work when I want to get off the second shot."

??
Wow, I'm not sure what to say to something as bizarre as that statement.
Unless your firing a single shot, some OU or SxSs I can't imagine an easier/faster to use shotgun.

Reliability and ease of use is why they are used by military and police. Have you ever taken any training with a pump?

 

[mljdeckard]

I very much agree. The pump should move pretty much subconsciously, become part of the recoil recovery, you dont think about it.

 

[foghornl]

My loading is #4 buck in the gun, slugs in the butt cuff.

 

[berettashotgun]

The extent of my pump shotgun use is super limited, and no - I have never had any training.
But with the quote ," The military uses them". I find a very shallow argument.
How many armies have EVER used a pump rifle?
I guess the new semi-auto shotgun being adopted is just a passing fancy
Not trying to stir the pot, I just have never had a problem with a beretta 1201 or ES100.
I trust them.
My house (well - the wife's house) and my rules; just like my Dad said.
I found out I didn't like pump shotguns when I was about 5, still dove hunted that season- broken arm lends itself to a lifetime of using the "easier" to use firearm.
Walking and chewing gum at the same time will get you every time
But, to each his own.

 

[cottonmouth]

I like #4 buck but a plain old high brass #6 will do just as good in a house if it's all you got. A 12 gague is an awful good home protection piece no matter what's flying out the end of the barrel.

J.B.

 

[riverdog]

Pumping a shotgun does need to be learned/trained. The first time I shot Skeet with my 870 I forgot to rack the slide between clay birds -- squeezing the trigger harder didn't help. A few more rounds of Skeet solved that problem. It needs to become instinctive and that takes trigger time. Taking both clay birds from station 7 with a pump gun is very satisfying.

 

[inSight-NEO]

but the answer to this is training, training, training.

I agree completely...for ANY weapon. Also, I always wonder how many peeps consider dealing with FTF or FTE probs, in addition to learning the various ways to quickly reload their weapon of choice..."tactical" reloading or otherwise.

Here we keep only 00 buckshot in the magazines of the house guns, with only Brenneke KO slugs in the SideSaddles- just in case more range or penetration is called for.

Once again..I agree. This is, generally speaking, my setup (but using Federal LE for both ammo types). Mixing ammo, whether in a mag tube, cylinder or magazine, is just a bad idea. Plain and simple.