Bullet Bans Work

[Mauserguy]

Yesterday my dad and I saw an ad for M1 Carbines from Big 5. We went to the store to take a look at one. While waiting to be served, we started talking to this older gentleman. He had a deer tag and needed non-lead ammunition for his 30-06. California just banned the use of lead ammunition in hunting. He tried several local shops and nobody had any. He was upset that he couldn’t find it, and that he would have to sight his rifle again just to shoot one round at a deer.

I suggested that he could just ignore the law, since it is pretty dumb, but he said no, that for the last seventy years he has obeyed the law and that he would not become a criminal now. I suggested, then, ordering some by mail order, but he had lost his Midway catalogue and didn’t want to have to wait.

He started talking to the store manager and I went to look at the camping gear. After several minutes I wondered over to him and asked if the manager had found any ammo for him. “No,” he said, “he called another store and they had one box of twenty-guage shot shells but no rifle ammo. I suppose I will just stop hunting.” Well, folks, this old guy has been hunting all his life, but he will probably now stop.

See, bullet bans do work.
Mauserguy

 

[Shortdog22]

If we don't do something no one will. But no one is willing to do anything. Gas Prices, The War, etc.

 

[lamazza]

Sounds like another one of the sheeple to me.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Sounds like another one of the sheeple to me.

There are plenty of people who take great pride in not breaking the law. It can be a matter of religious principle. It can be a matter of philosophical principle. It can be a simple matter of personal preference.

That's not to say there aren't people who live in slavish fear of the law, but simply refusing to break the law isn't an indicator someone's second-best.

 

[Pax Jordana]

simply refusing to break the law isn't an indicator someone's second-best.

That depends on your view of laws. Who said, what's right isn't necessarily legal, and what's legal isn't necessarily right?

If passing a bill is all it takes to cow some people, those particular people are royally screwed unless they're outnumbered by the people who will do what's right regardless of whether anyone else agrees.

Edited, to add: Though frankly I can see the man's reasons to say it's not worth his trouble, but hopefully something, someday, will be.

 

[DigitalWarrior]

My Father: Successful Felon

When I was twelve, my father (not a good man by most measures), came to me while he was drunk and said:

Son, you're becoming a man now, and as a man there are a couple of rules you gotta be sure to follow

1. Don't break the law. Breaking the law becomes a habit and you will not notice the laws you do break. It also helps to have a law-abiding reputation.
2. Don't break little laws. Jaywalking is a stupid reason to have to talk to a cop.
3. Only break one law at a time. Having a dead hooker in the trunk isn't a big deal. Having a dead hooker in the trunk and a busted tail-light is the start of a really bad day.

BTW, this story is not true, but is entertaining. It is also very relevant to this discussion. Oscar Wilde said that truth is a terrible restriction to put on a good story.

 

[rdhood]

1. Don't break the law. Breaking the law becomes a habit and you will not notice the laws you do break. It also helps to have a law-abiding reputation.

sometimes the government does asinine things, like imposing 55mph speed limits, making it a federal offense to check your email outside of a barnes and noble, or outlawing alcohol. After a while, you realize that the government has turned us into a nation of lawbreakers, and respect for the law has been lost, but that it isn't our fault. I'll leave the reader to determine who's fault it is. Hint: someone has to pass the law, someone has to enforce the law, and someone has to pass judgment on the guilty. At some point, it gets bad enough and becomes tea party time.

About 99.99999999...% of all lead bullets are not going to make it into a condor. How about a law that says that if you shoot lead, you dispose of your coyotes properly, instead of punishing all gun owners? This is a law designed to limit ammunition. It has nothing whatsoever to do with condors. It's goal is to stop the active expression of the 2nd, and to turn people into criminals.

 

[Rugerlvr]

The guy seriously needs to learn how to order from the Internet. Or is that not allowed in California?

 

[Mauserguy]

Currently it is legal to order ammunition and components from the internet, though the Assembly is considering a ban on that too. It will probably pass this month.

This fellow was an old guy. He probably didn't have many hunts left in him, but it was something important in his life and he wanted to do it. My guess is that he doesn't have an internet account. I actually offered to order some non-lead bullets for him, but he didn't want to impose upon me. He just wanted to buy a box of cartridges and go hunting, but that is no longer possible.
Mauserguy

 

[qajaq59]

In a way us older guys are lucky. We've had our good hunting days. Usually starting when we were just kids. And we could hunt just about anywhere with lead bullets or whatever. The people I feel sorry for are the youngsters that will never have the opportunities that we had.

But one thing I will tell you is NEVER miss an opportunily to campaign and vote for the politicians that still think the 2nd ammendment is important. Get off you butts and do something before you have no rights left at all. And grousing on the internet wont do it. Spend some time and money getting the right people elected, because it is the only chance left to protect yourselves.

And that's my rant for this year.

 

[crazed_ss]

SHould have told him to check out one of the Turners stores.. http://www.turners.com/index.html Big 5 doesnt have much of a selection when it guns to guns and ammo. Turners is an outdoors shop and I noticed they have a very wide selection of different types of hunting ammo.

Sucks that he has to run around to different stores though. Oh well.. it's CA.. what're you gonna do?

 

[jrfoxx]

While I can see the point that both Standing Wolf and Pax Jordana bring up about the the law being dumb, and about not breaking even dumb laws a matter of deep principal to some, for me I would not risk it, judst like the older man.If CA game laws are like many states, if he gets caught, they dont just take the deer, your hunting license, and give you a little fine, they may take the deer, take your license for years, give you a BIG fine, and also take, and keep, your gun, and whatever vehicle you drove out there in to hunt. While the law may be ridiculous, thats pretty steep IMHO.

 

[Ash]

Yeah, breaking hunting laws can lead to some VERY serious punishment. It would stink to lose your rifle and truck because you used lead.

Ash

 

[DragonFire]

If passing a bill is all it takes to cow some people,

Following a law does not equates to be cowed. Who decides which are the "dumb" laws, or the ones that aren't "right", or inconvenient or whatever?

So each person just follows the laws that they, individually, think are okay???? So the people who decide to ignore your no tresspassing signs are justified (your woods make such a nice camping spot)? And what about those "ridiculous" drinking and driving laws (how do they expect you to get home from the bar)?

We can rationalize all we want, but not following a law, any law, is a crime! And no, not all cimes are equal, so speeding is not the same a burlary or murder. But speeding is still a crime.

The idea is to work to change the laws, and/or the lawmarkers. That isn't easy or cheap. But ignoring laws you personally don't like doesn't make you an activist, it makes you a criminal (maybe a minor one, but still a criminal).

 

[foghornl]

Hmmmmm

Maybe he needs a Mosin-Nagant rifle and some of that all-steel 7.62x54 Surplus ammo...

That ammo ain't worth a Hoot in Hades for hunting....but hey, if it is the Game-N-Fish guys rules....

Is the lead ban on ALL ammo for hunting, or just shotgun shells??? Not up to speed on the California Game-N-Fish rules.

 

[alex_trebek]

Hmmmmm

Maybe he needs a Mosin-Nagant rifle and some of that all-steel 7.62x54 Surplus ammo...

That ammo ain't worth a Hoot in Hades for hunting....but hey, if it is the Game-N-Fish guys rules....

I think Cali has banned any magnetic ammo....FAIL.

 

[nyggis]

The whole idea with laws are to give examples on how a sane person with common sense should act in a given situation. That to set an example for people lacking the intelligence, or moral, to act right. Therefor a person with sound morals and a common sense should start questioning laws when they lack motivation or are illogical..

Sad to hear of this example!

 

[K3]

Following a law does not equates to be cowed. Who decides which are the "dumb" laws, or the ones that aren't "right", or inconvenient or whatever?

So each person just follows the laws that they, individually, think are okay???? So the people who decide to ignore your no tresspassing signs are justified (your woods make such a nice camping spot)? And what about those "ridiculous" drinking and driving laws (how do they expect you to get home from the bar)?

We can rationalize all we want, but not following a law, any law, is a crime! And no, not all cimes are equal, so speeding is not the same a burlary or murder. But speeding is still a crime.

The idea is to work to change the laws, and/or the lawmarkers. That isn't easy or cheap. But ignoring laws you personally don't like doesn't make you an activist, it makes you a criminal (maybe a minor one, but still a criminal).

So, when a law is passed requiring one to turn in ALL firearms, will you follow that one?

A man's got to draw the line somewhere.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Sometimes it's necessary and the correct thing to break the law.

You would still be an Enghish subject if men didn't have the guts to break the law.

If black, you would still be riding in the back of the bus if people didn't have the guts to break the law.

Laws are sometimes made by self serving, stupid, greedy, criminal politicians that do not follow the law (Constitution) themselves.
The old saying, "Some laws are made to be broken" is a fact.

As K3 said above,
"So, when a law is passed requiring one to turn in ALL firearms, will you follow that one?"

 

[MinnMooney]

Of course bans work. Any ban will get a few people - who probably would have stopped doing whatever for any minor impediment - to stop doing something. This is the anti's plan, of course. Ban lead, ban lg. cap. mags., ban semi-autos, ban handguns, ban "assault" rifles, ban anything gun related that can be sold as a bill-o-goods to the public and eventually it'll only be us hard-core 2nd amendment believers that will jump thru the hoops to keep any gun that is still legal.

Oh........... and the criminals will all have turned in their weapons 'cause they wouldn't want to fill out all of the paperwork involved.

 

[1911Tuner]

A man's got to draw the line somewhere.

Yup. Liberty isn't taken in one big bite. We lose it one nibble at a time.
I can't speak for the rest, but all the nibblin' that's been goin' on in the last 25 years have made my butt a little sore.

We don't "need" this or we don't "need" that...therefore, we shouldn't be allowed to have it...and all these things that we don't have need of are to be determined by somebody we never met, and likely never will...and it's determined at whim.

When someone determines that we really don't need to raise our own children and we don't need to have more than one television and we don't need to have the liberty to travel to another state without the express permission of both states and all the state lines that we cross during the trip...will the line then be clearly drawn then?

Whoops! Too late!

Sure...We can vote against'em. We might even vote'em out of office...but the damage is done. Of all the draconian laws that have passed in the last hundred years...how many have been repealed?

Hmmm?

M2...Spot on.

 

[Shortdog22]

When everyone here writes a short simple letter. To each and every single anti-gun politician in power, and up for election. Stating they will not give up the right to bear arms, and all should have a right to open-carry and CCW "except violent criminals". Who obviously don't follow the law anyway. Then the politicians might realize they are not in power they are representatives. Photo copies and signatures people.

 

[Tyris]

When everyone here writes a short simple letter. To each and every single anti-gun politician in power, and up for election. Stating they will not give up the right to bear arms, and all should have a right to open-carry and CCW "except violent criminals". Who obviously don't follow the law anyway. Then the politicians might realize they are not in power they are representatives. Photo copies and signatures people.

Doing that in california might lead to an early morning raid where police posing as ninjas break into your house, shoot your wife, rape your dog, and light the place on fire right before they sprinkle some crack on you and toss you in jail.

-T

 

[Auburn1992]

Whats their say on why lead should not be used for hunting?

 

[Rokyudai]

My guess is that it is environmental.

I do recall a while back when living in NYS, I was duck hunting for the first time with friends. Somehow the subject came up of lead shot. I was told that the lead could be digested by other animals and cause contaminated meat and/or death to other animals hence no lead ammo...sigh. Duck hunting at the time also had this stipulation.