Bullseye 45acp loads?

[JamieC]

Yeah, I know, everyone either yawned or got slightly irritated seeing this title, LOL. I'm loading my first 45 acp rounds. I've been loading for about 5 years, several thousand 9mm, 38 special, recently .380 and quite a few 223. Looking for loads using Bullseye, 200gr LSWC Bayou Bullets, 225gr Bayou truncated cone, seeing what works. Seems to me that Bullseye loads for both the 200 and 225-230gr are pretty similar. I would expect the heavier bullets to be less, doesn't always seem to be the case. Actual loads are all over the place. There are definite patterns, but I'm a bit confused. FWIW, the first loads I've put together are using Bullseye and the 200gr LSWC, 4.1, 4.6, 5.1gr, 1.250" OAL. Haven't gotten all the parts to build the gun yet, so not in a big hurry. I also have a bunch of Power Pistol I'm going to work up some loads with, there is less load data for that powder in 45acp, most of it for jacketed bullets. Seems it is mostly liked for higher powered loads.

 

[joem1945]

I have used bullseye for .45ACP. It's pretty dirty but works well. I've switched to AA powders which seem to burn much cleaner.

 

[the Black Spot]

I use 5 gr with a 240 xtp

 

[Rule3]

Without actually going to get my manuals

Here is some data

http://www.reloadammo.com/45loads.htm

 

[JamieC]

Without actually going to get my manuals

Here is some data

http://www.reloadammo.com/45loads.htm

Yes, I've seen that site, kind of confirms my question. 200gr LSWC, Bullseye, 4.2-4.8gr. 230 LSWC, Bullseye, 4.0-4.8, the 4.8 is listed as a "hot" load. Basically no difference in suggested powder amounts for two different weight bullets, right? Also, using the 200gr LSWC, 4.2gr Bullseye is listed @ 790fps, 4.8gr @ 815fps. The 230gr LSWC, 4.0gr gets 810fps, 4.8gr, (the 'hot' load), gets 884fps. What am I missing?

 

[Rule3]

Bullseye was/is the official hard ball 45 ACP load for the Military since time began

4.8 gr or so for 230 gr bullet

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...owderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=1&cartridge=35

 

[Sunray]

Been using 4.5 of Bullseye with cast 230 RN's and FP's(same idea as your truncated cone) for eons.
You do not need manufacturer specific data.
Alliant's site says 4.6 is max for a cast 200. .2 of a grain isn't going to make any difference, but the discrepancy is just the variance in manuals.

 

[JamieC]

I'm starting to think this is a 45acp 'thing'. With SO many people using SO many different recipes... at least I'm fairly confident that my loads will be safe if nothing else.

 

[LiveLife]

200gr LSWC, Bullseye, 4.2-4.8gr. 230 LSWC, Bullseye, 4.0-4.8, the 4.8 is listed as a "hot" load. Basically no difference in suggested powder amounts for two different weight bullets, right? Also, using the 200gr LSWC, 4.2gr Bullseye is listed @ 790fps, 4.8gr @ 815fps. The 230gr LSWC, 4.0gr gets 810fps, 4.8gr, (the 'hot' load), gets 884fps. What am I missing?

Different bullet shape/alloy type/barrel used for testing along with different OAL/COL will produce different velocities for same powder charge.

I try to use the most current published load data and if I get conflicting load data, I will use more conservative load data for my powder work up, especially if I am using shorter than published OAL/COL.

 

[moxie]

Those tenths do make a difference in accuracy. Way back developing loads for .45acp I'd go up the ladder by tenths and note big differences. And it can vary from gun to gun. Eventually you will find the perfect setup for your gun. And Bullseye is hard to beat. It's my favorite.

 

[Dudedog]

For Bullseye I like 4.4 with a 200 SWC. Shoots well medium power wise.
For me Bullseye just isn't as clean as HP38 or some others.
I prefer HP38 with 200 lead SWCs.

 

[GooseGestapo]

A bunch of PPC records have been shot using 4.0 gr Bullseye under a H&G #68style SWC. Need to use a 10 or 12lb recoil spring for reliable function. Federal or Starline brass, Federal or Winchester primers. Typical seating depth is 1.125" oal.
Personally, I prefer 4.3gr Clays. No need for reduced power spring. 4.4gr Bullseye will work with std 16.5 lb spring.
Re: dirty powder; I prefer "clean scores to a clean bore" Bullseye has given me more "clean scores" I can then clean the gun at leisure after claiming my trophy/winnings. Exceptions: #231 w/ 148gr HB wadcutters is without peer in .38spl. But Bullseye is very, very good.

 

[Slamfire]

The original 1910 development round was specified to use a 230 FMJ with 5.0 grains Bullseye. The required velocity was 800 fps out of a 5" barrel. This velocity is a guide to use in the M1911 pistols, that is a 230 grain bullet at or around 800 fps. Commercial ammunition is hotter, don't know if the pressures are higher or lower, since I don't have a pressure barrel, I monitor velocity and function.

A common 50 yard Bullseye load is a 200 LSWC with 4.0 grains Bullseye. This is accurate, mild recoil. For the 25 yard timed and rapid sequences, I am using a 200 LSWC with 3.5 grains Bullseye.

My chronograph data is below, for a 230 LRN, I decided 4.5 grains Bullseye met my velocity standards. Obviously the round can be loaded to a lower pressure level and still function.

[SIZE="3"]
[B]Kimber Custom Classic M1911[/B]



200 LSWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WLP 		
21-Jun-06 T = 97 °F		

Ave Vel =748.2		
Std Dev =	10.86			
ES =	41.52			
High =   763.2			
Low =721.7			
N =	22	
		
Mild recoil, very accurate, excellent target load. 


230 LFN Bull-X 3.5 grs Bullseye Mixed Brass WLP		
OAL 1.20"	taper crimp .469"
8-Jan-06	T = 61 °F

Ave Vel =643.6				
Std Dev =14.07			
ES =	63.63			
High = 679.9		 		
Low =616.3				
N =	32				 
      
shot a little high Pistol cycled each shot



230 LFN Bull-X 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed Brass WLP		
		
OAL 1.20"	taper crimp .469"
8-Jan-06	T = 61 °F

Ave Vel =715.9				
Std Dev =11.45			
ES =	48.32		 		
High = 742.9		 		
Low =694.8				
N =	32				 

shot a little low

					
230 gr LRN 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed Brass WLP		
	
OAL 1.250"	 taper crimp .469"

29-Jan-06 T = 68  °F	
Ave Vel =698.8				
Std Dev =10.19		
ES =	36.33		 		
High = 713.5				
Low =677.1				
N =	28	
			 
Little High =  put close point of aim V. Accurate
		
230 gr LRN  4.5 grs Bullseye Mixed Brass WLP		
21-Jun-06 T = 97  °F	
OAL 1.250" taper crimp .469"	

Ave Vel = 805.2		
Std Dev =11.4		
ES=54.08		
High=836.9		 
Low=782.8		 
N =32

230 gr FMJ (R-P) 5.0 grs Bullseye 99' & 2005 mixed lot Mixed Brass WLP (brass) OAL 1.265" taper crimp .469"

12-Dec-11 T= 53  °F			
					
Ave Vel =793.5				
Std Dev =18.92				
ES =	61.99				
High = 817.4				
Low =755.4				
N =	16		

[ATTACH=full]731401[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=full]731402[/ATTACH]


[/SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]
[B]M1911 Les Baer Wadcutter 	[/B]		
					
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.5 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 

8-Jun-15	T = 91 °F	OAL 1.250"	Taper Crimp 0.469"	
					
Ave Vel =660.6		 		
Std Dev =16.37		 		 
ES =	60.28		 		 
High = 695.6				 
Low =635.3				 
N =	22				 
					
functioned every round,  light recoil, accurate			
					
					
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.8 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 
8-Jun-15	T = 91 °F	OAL 1.250"	Taper Crimp 0.469"	
oiled cases 					
					
Ave Vel =714.4		 		
Std Dev =17.17		 		 
ES =	77.2		 		 
High = 755.1				 
Low =677.9				 
N =	30				 
					
 accurate					
					
					
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 
8-Jun-15	T = 91 °F	OAL 1.250"	Taper Crimp 0.469"	
oiled cases 					
					
Ave Vel =742.9		 		
Std Dev =	9.89		 		 
ES =	33.19		 		 
High = 760.6				 
Low =727.5				 
N =	20				 
					
accurate		

[ATTACH=full]731403[/ATTACH]			
[/SIZE]

 

[Furncliff]

I like Bullseye.... a lot.

 

[JamieC]

Slamfire1, WOW, great info, thank you. Seems like everybody is pretty much on the same page on this forum, I'm fairly confident that my first 45acp efforts will be fine...by any chance, have you loaded 45acp using Power Pistol? I have a good amount of that for my 9mm stuff. I'd like to work on some loads for the 45acp also.

 

[Salmoneye]

2004 Alliant manual...

Info you are looking for is page 44:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=182147&d=1364769070

 

[JamieC]

That is pretty much what I've found so far regarding Power Pistol and 45acp. There is a fair amount of info using jacketed bullets, not so much for lead. I'll see how it goes, from what I know and have read, Power Pistol might work out better for lighter weight, higher speed bullets. 185gr Hornady XTPs for example.

 

[41 Mag]

I pour up a couple of different cast bullets which run in the 185-220gr range. A couple of them are similar to the HG 68, one is from that particular HG mold, and then there is the 200gr HP's. All of them use the same alloy which runs around a 9 BHN and shoot wonderfully.

I settled on 4.0 grs of BE for ease of load especially since it shoots very well from my two 1911's with all of the different bullets. I admit there is a bit of differences in the impacts at 25yds, but I can live with a couple of inches since I'm not shooting comp. Heck most times it's not the load that causes it anyway.

I switched over to BE for these loads more from an economy standpoint since it allows me to shoot a ton of rounds for not a lot of money. I had a co-worker asking me why I didn't shoot 22's much and I told him I could shoot my 45's cheaper and get more bang for my buck. Once I explained that I could get over 1600 rounds from a pound of powder he started to come around to my point of view. The highest cost in my loads are the newer primers I purchased recently. My 8# jugs of BE only cost me $125 out the door and thats a whole LOT of shooting for a little bit.

 

[tcoz]

Bullseye was/is the official hard ball 45 ACP load for the Military since time began

The military load was actually 5.0gr for 230gr hardball. I load 4.8gr and it works well in my Sig Nitron 1911.

 

[Reefinmike]

My favorite bullseye load is a lee 230(238gr actual weight)gr lead truncated cone powder coated with 5.2gr bullseye and a winchester large pistol primer. Chrono results out of a g41.

 

[Dudedog]

I loaded up some 200 MBC coated SWCs with 6.5gr PowerPistol. 230s with 6.7 where a little better. Both shot decent but I really didn't care for PP in .45 for medium loads. It would probably be happier at heavier charges.

 

[JamieC]

I loaded up some 200 MBC coated SWCs with 6.5gr PowerPistol. 230s with 6.7 where a little better. Both shot decent but I really didn't care for PP in .45 for medium loads. It would probably be happier at heavier charges.

When you say they shot "decent", is that accuracy wise? I'm starting off using Bayou Bullets 225gr TC, 6.0gr PP. I bought 1K of magnum pistol primers by mistake, going to use them so I'm starting on the 'low' side. From what I'm hearing and reading, PP works for 45acp, isn't the ideal powder. At least once I get my 1911 built, I'll have lots of excuses to get out to the range!

 

[Dudedog]

I don't have any #s or pictures of the groups. I just had a note of the charges and my own comment "shot decent" and a little better. My comments tend to run along the lines of great, good, decent, poor. I don't recall if I did not care for the accuracy, the muzzle flash, if they were dirty, etc. The comment was my overall feeling about the loads. Decent = a C not an A or B. PP may have got a decent because there are 4 or 5 other powders I liked better even if everything else was good. (being PP I know there was muzzle flash)
If I have time I will load up some with the bit of PP I have left and test again and try to make some better notes.
Lyman 49 show 6.3 to 7gr of PP with a 230 LRN @ 1,27 OAL
Sorry not a lot of help right now.

 

[double bogey]

If you are loading lead, read this:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=407195