Bump setting questions

[bronsht]

Probably the dummest questions ever asked, but what can I say?
1. Have full length die set per instructions from 14 years ago. It is a Redding die which came with a lead shot to lock the lock ring in place. I want to attempt just a bump set back but I can't move the lock ring/die. How does one loosen that lead without damaging the die?

2. As set for FL sizing the die is giving me too long a datum point reading. I need to lower that reading about 1/1000 of an inch. Do I screw the die further in to the press or further out (once I get the lead piece loosened). Thank you.

 

[gamestalker]

Did you loosen the allen set screw? Once you loosen it up, you should be able to break the threaded lock ring free, then adjust as needed.

As far as adjustment is concerned, moving the die down bumps the shoulder down. So if the shoulders are too high, thus creating issues with closing the bolt, you would adjust the die down.

If the bolt closes on the brass, there is no need to bump the shoulder any further, doing so could cause a problem with premature incipient case head separation.

GS

 

[FLIGHT762]

1)- Loosen the allen screw in the die ring. Take a piece of wood, plastic (just not steel) and rap side the lock ring smartly once or twice, this will usually loosen the ring. A wooden handle of a hammer will work well.

2)- Turn the die into the press until you see the shoulder start to bump back. As a rule, a 1/8th turn of the die will move the die in .009". When you get close to your bump goal, use that as a measurement as to how much you want to bump. When you get close, it is a small turn of the die to get where you want.

 

[bronsht]

Thank you, both. The wood slat worked just fine. All of the 30 pieces fit the chamber except 3 (which really did close but were a tiny bit tight so I resized them). If I do not need to size the 27 pieces, don't I need to neck size these as I usually do after firing?

 

[FLIGHT762]

If I'm understanding your question, no, you don't need to neck size the F/L sized cases, unless the F/L Redding die is a BODY DIE. Is the Redding die a body die?

If it is a body die, then yes, you need to neck size separately. A regular F/L die sizes the case body, shoulder and neck.

I do very little neck only sizing. I've found I can get three, maybe four neck sizings before I have to F/L size the case again.
I hate having to beat on a bolt handle to get a N/O sized case that doesn't want to chamber. I've had stuck cases far too often. If I do N/O size, I keep detailed notes as to how many N/O firings are on the brass.

 

[bronsht]

I read Gamestalker's answer too quickly and misinterpreted his response. My brass does close on the bolt but it has not been sized in any capacity and I thought he meant I did not have to size. I'll reset (check my FL die) and size all of the brass. Then I'll check trim to length (again as they are all fine now but may not be after sizing). I will leave you all alone and once again, I thank you for your responses.

 

[Dentite]

I have replaced all my die lock rings with Hornady split ring design lock rings. No damage to threads and holds tight.

 

[bronsht]

Hornady

Dentite,
I have only one Hornady die set but that ring is great. I also long ago replaced some but not all RCBS and Redding lock rings with Lee. Don't laugh; if used carefully they are useful but yes, they can slip. I have some unused extra Forster ones I may employ until I can purchase some Hornady. The Forster are similar to the Hornady but aluminum and I do prefer the steel.

Either of the last two would make it easier for me to conduct bump die changing in the future.

 

[witchhunter]

You can replace the lead shot in that lock ring. It is used to reduce damage to the threads on the die. Adjust your sizing die down until your case JUST fits into your chamber, the bolt should close easily, but just barely. This will give the best brass life, other than neck sizing only. Trim after sizing.

 

[gamestalker]

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you.

What I was saying is, just FL size until the brass will fit the chamber without significant resistance. You don't want to bump the shoulders back more than necessary to achieve this, as that can lead to premature case head separations, thus shortening the life of the brass due to stretching during firing, and over working during resizing.

In many cases, bottle neck brass can be reloaded 10 or 12 times or more, if care is taken to not bump the shoulders more than necessary. A little bit of resistance is good when closing the bolt, nothing wrong with snug, as this indicates that your shoulders are in close tolerance to the chamber.

Hope that helped.

GS

 

[fguffey]

I do not secure the lock ring to the die, I secure the die to the press with the lock ring. I have about every lock ring ever made, most are knurled meaning the intent was to secure with the hand. I cut strips of leather from slings and belts to protect the surface if lock rings, dies and round seater plug jam nuts. Sizing dies also came with knurled round adjusters, same thing, I use slip joints and leather.

I have purchased many die sets that show evidence of pipe wrench/vise grip use. A knurled surface suggest hand tight is sufficient.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

nothing wrong with snug, as this indicates that your shoulders are in close tolerance to the chamber

I disagree, there are different reasons for resistance to bolt closing. Closing the bolt with resistance to closing is a bad habit. It is possible to determine the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face.

F. Guffey

 

[LTH]

. It is possible to determine the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face./QUOTE]

So how do you do this ?
Can you explain in a way that's understandable ?

 

[Sunray]

One thou won't make a lick of difference. And you'll never be able to adjust a die one thousands of a inch.
FL and all dies should be set up so the shell holder just kisses the die with the ram all the way up.

 

[bush3755]

Any bolt binding on a chambered round causes accuracy problems. That's why neck only sized cases need full length sized every few cycles. Groups open up one to several tenths MOA.

Chamber space from breech to shoulder is about .001" greater than that of a fired case. Use a Hornady LNL or RCBS Precision Mic to measure rimless cases then compare them to what a GO chamber gauge measures.

Setting full length sizing dies to touch the standard shellholder usually sizes cases too much shortening case life by bumping the fired case shoulder back to (or less than) where it was relative to the case head when new. Head clearance to the bolt face can be way too much; .004" is about maximum for best accuracy and case life. Bumping fired case shoulders back .002" will often let rimless cases be reloaded several dozen times with normal max loads.

People have been adjusting die position 1/1000th inch for a long time. A little grade school math will tell you how much the die needs to be turned to move it up or down .002"; 1/36th of a turn or 10 degrees twist. There's about .072" between die threads. Here's a link to a site with labels you can print then stick them on your die lock rings:

http://s860.photobucket.com/user/jepp2/media/DieAdjustment-1.jpg.html

Using Redding's competition shell holders will let the die stop in .002" steps above the standard .125" height to .135". They'll let you control case headspace to a .001" spread when they're lubed properly. Without them, sized case headspace to their shoulder will have about .002" spread; not a problem at all to get a couple dozen or more reloads per case.

I've just backed my dies up a few thousandths to get shoulders bumped back a couple thousandths from their fired position; die never touches the shell holder at all.

 

[ku4hx]

On my old dies that stick, I just rap the ring a few times with a small plastic hammer. Back the set screw out and a few moderate raps on the lock ring at 90 degrees to the die itself has always loosened mine.