Bushy v DPMS?

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@ Mags I would have a month ago :)

@ OP Good luck. I wish I could add more, but all I have are my AR's and 2 out of three run like tops (the third is a homebrew, working on kinks...). I have built various ones with different barrels in the past and they all work fine. If you are doing it for fun, do a little research and decide for yourself. The best stuff could be decent stuff and more ammo.
 
No, I sure didn't. But I do have one, its a 20" stainless bull, 1 in 8 twist. The accuracy is astounding. No problems at all in at least 1000 handloaded rounds.
 
I JUST BOUGHT A HESSE!! OK it was practically free, $150 bucks, my dad got it from a friend he helped move. It is a complete kit that never was fully assembled.
Well hopefully it at least has a good barrel. I will report after final assembly,
Hey AZZIZZA maybe I'll take it to a carbine class!
 
Seriously, I also own a Bushy. I am not ashamed of it. I'm gonna go shoot it right now.
 
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To the op: either brand you cited will work just fine. Be advised, however, that there is a certain poster who haunts the AR-15 threads, looking to drop into the discussions but only so that he can disparage the brands most people buy and to espouse the brands (read Colt and other "high-end", semi-custom jobs only the well-heeled can afford) that he, the AR Guru, anoints. He typically will cite many anecdotal sources ( I experienced this; they reported that; all the experts say this; experienced armorers say that; gunsmiths say this; gunshop owners say that, and so on, ad nauseam) to support his claims. When this self-appointed expert is asked to provide hard-core, empirical evidence showing where specific brands out-perform other specific brands and in which specific ways, well, don't hold your breath.
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This pretty much sums it up......Welcome to The High Road!
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Truer words have never been spoken. I have a feeling this member who shall remain nameless got glove slapped by a DPMS/RRA employee and is forever butt hurt. It's hard to find one AR-15 thread where he isn't bashing on every brand except for the "tier 1's".
He does the same thing on GlockTalk under a different moniker.

To the OP:

Although DPMS and Bushmaster aren't going to be as high quality as LWRC, Noveske, and Daniel Defense. They will serve many purposes. They can both be had for a steal online and at gun shows.

Saying that they're complete garbage is internet fanboyism at it's best. Using that logic, I could say the SW MP pistol is complete and utter crap because they don't do the run of testing that HK does on the USP Tactical model. They don't do an obstruction test, salt spray test, or an extreme temp test. They also don't use cold hammer forged barrels on the M&P. Does it make it pure crap? Absolutely not.

I'm not saying DPMS/Bushmaster/RRA/S&W are combat grade. They are most definitely self defense grade. Home defense rifles are usually in a temp controlled environment and kept clean and lubed. SHTF fantasy aside, they will both serve you well. If you want to have the option of dumping 2,000 rounds out of one in a two day span, then you're better served with one of the top tier brands. However, if you can afford all that ammo for a two day shooting excursion, you probably can afford any rifle you want and this entire debate is moot. Decide what you want the rifle for and then make a decision based on that, and not what some keyboard commando with an agenda says.
 
$520 for a BCM middy:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-1...urg-mid-16.htm
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Don't forget the Emergency room visit for the third degree burns on your support hand from lack of hand guards :D ;).

That is a good deal though.

All this AR elitism is disgusting. If you wanna talk that way, go back to BARFCOM where you came from. Don't pollute this place with your waste. And since when are you all metallurgists? You're only spewing crap that you've read or heard someone else say, you haven't really experienced the materials yourselves.

Really, shut up guys.
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Actually a lot of what the certain member says is true. It's just hard to take anyone seriously that clearly has an agenda against a certain brand.

If you actually go to ARF.com you'll see that most of the members there aren't as elitist as you may think. Most of them understand that not everyone is superdupertacticalmuythaibulletdodgingbeardedleadlauncher
 
It's just hard to take anyone seriously that clearly has an agenda against a certain brand.
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I assume you are referring to me. I don't have an agenda against any brand. I just don't see a reason to own junk. I haven't worked in the Firearms industry for years. When I did I sold a number of good and crappy brands. In fact I made a lot more money off the brands I have come to realize are not as good of quality as others.
I have nothing to gain from these discussions. I do it to try to help others avoid the mistakes I made.

It has nothing to do with being Tactical, blah blah blah. It has to do with having quality components in a tool that can be dangerous if used incorrectly or if assembled with sub standard parts.
 
Azizza I knew you owned or worked in a gun store. Your knowlege sharing is one thing but its how you and others come off that is kinda abrasive or pompus even. I can understand your concern....I supose, but most AR manufactureres are not going to release guns that will blow up in your hands. Take this with many grains of salt and don't punch you computer monitor, but. You may know everything...You may not, but modest people that are just trying to help do not have to prove that they do.
 
I just don't see a reason to own junk
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I have a DPMS classic 16 if throwing a thousand rounds down it without any issue makes it "Junk" well hell then I guess I can live with that.

I have come to realize are not as good of quality as others
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Probably the less inflammatory way to put it. I have fired a ton of round out of my DPMS. Most of the time yes you get what you pay for. However, because a particular firearm costs less, does not make it worthless. of course you have presented plenty of information to back up your opinion and that is very valuable stuff. You have given some great info on deals to be had on some deals models as well also good stuff.

I would bet the borderline animosity you are getting on it is because your methods are bit abrasive in referring to the weapon as junk. It may be lesser quality than some of the more expensive brands or even some brand of equal cost but it fill an important niche. Not everyone can afford to buy BMW or Lexus. Some of us folks are stuck with crappy Chevy and Ford but that does not make them useless. I would bet a good deal of the rounds fired out of ARs in the US are from "junk" which more than likely performs perfectly well.

If anything my experience has been most lower quality weapons are simply less tolerant to a lack of care than a higher quality. My DPMS has performed flawlessly for me. Just try not to show so much contempt for those of us who may have a firearm whose brand name you may not care for, helps keep folks responses less passionate.
 
Sorry my last couple post got a bit inflammatory guys. It just takes away from teh discussion at hand and I apologize. But I am getting tired of the petty insults and accusations that are getting thrown around. You don't agree with me? Fine I can respect that. But there is a big difference between that and saying I have an agenda or telling me to shut up.

I don't care what gun you own. But don't think that means I don't want to direct new AR owners in what is proven to be a better direction.

I have no doubt that the people that are claiming their DPMS or Bushy rifles are running fine are telling the truth. However that is a sample size of 1 (or in some cases 2 or 3). The people who talk about the failure rates we are discussion deal with hundreds or even thousands of weapons. They see the good and the bad. This is why their opinions are highly regarded in the community.

ETA:

Lets just all deescalate a bit here.

My Point has been that I feel there are better Guns for the money. I base this off of Personal experience and the experiences as people I have had the honor of speaking with who have more hands on trigger and armory time than any of us. I am happy to hear other points of views and discuss it.
 
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Is anyone willing to say DPMS/Bushmaster is made with higher quality components, and built to stricter QC than BCM/Colt/LMT even Spikes?
They should be since they cost as much or more.
 
Zerodefect you posted a link to a dog that has a liking problem. I looked 3 times before I posted this. Ok DPMS/Bushmaster is crap junk. Their upper and lower housings are made from cheap Chinese aluminium cast from recycled Tsingtao beer cans. The steel used for their barrels, bolts, switches, and triggers are of the lowest grade not even suitable for hot wheel cars. As for quality controll what do you expect when you have 7yr old Mexican kids assembling these for 2 pesos a day. Yet they have the nerve to sell their basic carbine for $702.00 to $846 for a complete rifle!

Now the gloves are off and .im messing with you. :evil: See my earlyer post ALL MANUFACTURERS have QC issues from time to time. Even Colt, Spikes, etc. NOTHING can be perfect! NOTHING!.....Well unless their was a manufacturer that shot 100s of rounds through every single rife that they build. Making sure each and every customer treated every rifle with the utmost care and stringent cleaning routine! But what company has time for that!
 
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Yes all mfrs produce the occasional lemon. I'm not concerned with those, we are looking at the average product produced. No one is saying DPMS is junk, just that there are better options for the same or less money for someone just getting into AR's. Why is this so hard to understand? If you own DPMS and love it great, good for you, I hope it is a trusted reliable companion. Just because it is what you own doesn't make it the cats pajamas.

Again, is DPMS/Bushmaster better since they cost more? No, no they are not. I would never steer a newbie that was looking for a M$ type upper with a fixed front sight into a DPMS for more money than a BCM, thats rediculous.
 
superdupertacticalmuythaibulletdodgingbeardedleadlauncher
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Ya only missed ' genius ' somewheres in that ....

To the OP , Figure out what the main intended purpose will be for this weapon for sure . If your gonna go play weekend Rambo , and throw 1000 rounds down range each and every weekend then maybe a bit higher grade rifle would be in order . When I bought an AR , it was only because it fit my criteria of my next gun purchase . Was looking for a varmint / bench toy that was an auto loader , and most importantly had to be very accurate . Researched away , and decided on a DPMS despite all the bashing as you've seen here . 16 inch stainless bull so I can hoof it around when needed , that will consistently go .5 and on occasion smaller with my reloads , all for 800 bucks . Fits the role perfectly . And as for reliability , only 1 ftfeed in the first 600 rounds and it was MY FAULT , loaded a test set of 69 grainers just a bit to long . For a casual plinker and fun toy , I dont see how you could go wrong with either of your choices .
 
Problem 1: Certain members here assume that what you want out of an AR carbine is a combat gun, and therefore, you need "mil-spec" in a Colt, LMT, or BCM.

Problem 2: The same members mentioned in problem 1 are also willing to overlook shortcomings in Tier 1 brands for the sake of being "mil-spec"...Last I looked, one of the most respected guns (Noveske) is not "mil-spec" in the barrel category, but I don't know anyone who would pass one up if able to purchase.

Problem 3: All mentioned evidence of failures of "junk" rifles is anecdotal. This anecdotal evidence will be accepted without question and spoonfed to the rest of us as fact, but positive experiences with "junk" brands will be ignored as "too small a sample rate to be relevant".

Problem 4: All blanket statements made about all brands may or may not be true on the rifle you purchase. The infamous "chart" isn't accurate in all cases. This is particularly true with Bushmaster.

Problem 5: It is hard to determine whether those who own the "junk" brand AR's are experiencing buyer's remorse and defending their purchase, or those who payed big money for the "tier 1" hammer of Thor rifles are just pissed because lots of people running the "junk" guns are keeping up with them just fine.

The real truth is that any gun that has proven itself reliable is a good gun, regardless of brand. The beauty with an AR is that you can change anything on the gun that you want, including any part that might impact "reliability". At least two of the AR mil-spec requirements are proper staking, which can be done on any AR by any idiot with a hammer and chisel for the whopping cost of free. In fact, Young Machine refuses to stake their gas keys, and they are an excellent BCG upgrade to any gun.

Buy the gun you can afford. If it runs, shoot the heck out of it and enjoy your purchase. Customize at will from there. Upgrade to your heart's content. Fact is, a heavily upgraded Bushy or DPMS is going to cost just about the same as any Noveske that's had any upgrades done at all. It is a lego set, build as you will.
 
Come on you had to have found my last quote funny. I was laughing when I typed it. Yes there were some that called these guns crap. But no one answered my question. One person answered it loosely but not a positive answer.

Who does BCM get their parts from? Are they 100% machined and manufactured by that company? If so....How can they sell an upper, lower, or complete rifle that cheap? I've never worked for a company that can be profitable on a 1-5% profit margin. Thats about all they would make using BCM own better parts and doing all tooling in house. Help me understand that.?.?
 
Punisher, stop asking legitimate questions! You know better! Top tier rifles are above question!
 
I don't know where they get them, but I do know they are shot peened and MP tested. Each and every one individually, not by lot. This WILL help to reduce bolt induced failures in their rifles, and add to long term reliability.
DPMS/Bushmaster does not shot peen, and are not individually MP tested and they cost MORE....getting the picture yet, they are of lesser quality and they cost more money to get them. But it doesn't stop there, BCM also Pressure tests bbls (DPMS/BUSHMASTER) does not, they and they have chrome lined chambers as well as bores, AND they are parked under the fsb (DPMS BUSHY are not). Does this mean DPMS/Bush is garbage? No absolutely not.Ugh...I know there are a lot of folks that can't afford higher end (Noveske and the like) Ar's. That doesn't make them a bad buy, and it doesn't make those who enjoy them elitist snobs either.

....How can they sell an upper, lower, or complete rifle that cheap? I've never worked for a company that can be profitable on a 1-5% profit margin. Thats about all they would make using BCM own better parts and doing all tooling in house. Help me understand that.?.?
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and in your words they are too cheap, go figure. Maybe dpms is WAY overpriced for the quality you are getting, you are in fact using DPMS's pricing as the measuring stick.

If this doesn't help you understand, I give up.
 
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You know what amuses me? What makes you think that when the world ends and you're fighting back the zombies, your rifle will suddenly fall flat on its face and cease to function if it doesn't have a certain name stamped onto the receiver? And NO, don't say anything in regards to running it over with a dumptruck in a pile of wet cement. You know good and well you aren't going to do that anyway.
 
Do you really want to pay more for less, even if the more is just reducing chance of failure, and not enhancing function? I don't get it PLEASE explain this to me, I would love to hear the logic.

Oh my gosh, the reading comprehension skills must be at an all time low.


Here's a summary for the impaired.

DPMS good --works well-- costs money
BCM better components --less risk of failure costs less money
BCM better buy for the money
 
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