Business owner surprises me!

[sonier]

<Deleted -- Sam>

Back on the thr topic, you have to explain to her that CCW does not give you the right to become an armed bodyguard to whomever you please. Its your life at stake, for her stuff. Be a gentlemen take her to a private range with little other people there. Teach her how to shoot. Show her gun safety and that guns dont kill people just people. Explain to her how easy it is to get a CCW permit and be done with it.

 

[killchain]

Someone better be paying me more money and changing my job description if they expect me to play security guard at work.

 

[Sam1911]

O.k.... there is a topic of some relevancy to THR.org in this thread. Liberal vs. conservative stereotyping is NOT it.

Any more and we go bye-bye.

 

[Werewolf]

So, you're saying that carrying wouldn't make the OP safer, that carrying incurs legal liability, and that hiring a near-minimum-wage, non-gunnie security guard to look imposing would create a safer environment than encouraging employees to carry?

It would make the OP safer, in his office. The implication however is that the boss would want him to respond to any area of the company that was assaulted. That is the function of security personnel. Protecting those in your immediate area from harm by using your CCW is entirely legal and moral. Running to the sound of the guns in a business environment when one is not a part of a security team may be moral, in most cases would be stupid and may not be legal.

There is a degree of cognitive dissonance here that surprises me, because those are the arguments the anti-CHL zealots use to try to get workplace carry banned. Honestly, I know quite a few liberals on DU who are more pro-CCW than a lot of the responders in this thread.

No... There isn't any cognitive dissonance here.

As I see this, the boss is acknowleging that CCW by the lawful and competent creates a safer environment and is encouraging that in a positive way. Would some people be happier if the boss discouraged carry instead? I wish more employers, including many who self-identify as "conservative", were as open-minded on lawful CCW

.

The boss is leaning on the OP to accept a responsibility she herself isn't willing to accept. And she is doing it in a way that places all legal liability on the shoulders of the op and none on herself. She assumes no risk. He assumes it all. She is doing the OP no favor.

To the OP, I say good for your boss, and I'd discreetly carry in that situation. Doing so does NOT make you a "security guard", and unequivocally provides a net safety benefit to you and those around you.

As long as the boss doesn't expect him to run to the sound of the guns I won't disagree.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

O.k.... there is a topic of some relevancy to THR.org in this thread. Liberal vs. conservative stereotyping is NOT it.

Any more and we go bye-bye

Thought I'd copy and paste what Sam said, since some obviously didn't read it.

 

[leadcounsel]

I wouldn't trust her nor give her the idea I would defend her or her stuff.

My piece is for my defense and defense of things important to me, not for some liberal who supports things I detest.

 

[Sam1911]

O.k.... there is a topic of some relevancy to THR.org in this thread. Liberal vs. conservative stereotyping is NOT it.

Any more and we go bye-bye

Thought I'd copy and paste what Sam said, since some obviously didn't read it.

Guess somebody must have wanted the thread closed. Strange, I though it was a good one.

 

[duns]

On the substantive point raised by the OP, what do you do when your boss asks you to carry a gun to protect the business? Tell her that you carry to protect yourself and your family (and just conceivably innocent third parties under attack - but that is fraught with problems as discussed in other threads on this forum so probably won't happen in reality). Tell her you are not trained or paid to protect her business or her or her other employees. If her business and people in it IS protected to some degree by you protecting yourself, that is a bonus and not the reason you carry and you offer no guarantees to her. If she is worried about security, she needs to address that herself and hire some professional help and not try to get it for free from employees. What if you tried to be helpful, made the wrong decision, and escalated a hold up into a gun fight where she/other people were hurt? Bet she'd be amongst the first to sue you.

PS If you assume a responsibility, you could be held liable in law for not fulfilling it, even if you assumed the responsibility free of charge.

 

[Sam1911]

Whew. [...puts down pruning shears...] That was a lot of work, but now I think one could read the thread and actually get something from it.

Can we keep it on track NOW, please?

 

[TomTerrific]

This is getting a little scary. That sounds a little like you may be asked to shoot a guy over money, jewelry and electronics. That's not what a Concealed Carry permit is for. The CCW is to be used to protect your LIFE and that of others.

If your boss is looking for someone to protect the company's stuff, she needs to hire a trained and bonded security guard.

So I say carry your weapon, but don't get between a crack head and the plasma monitor he wants turn into drugs.

In Louisiana at least, an armed security officer is licensed/permitted/whatever by a security commission to carry to protect themselves, much as a CCP is for self protection.

I don't know what the training requirements are, but it must not be much as a really ding bat acquaintance was carrying as a security officer. AAMF, a security officer is not allowed to touch another person in carrying out their duties unless it's to defend themselves. They aren't allowed to subdue a person, for example.

So in this state a security officer's gun is to protect them, not property. I have no idea what the regulations are in other states.

 

[sonier]

Thankyou Sam for cleaning up this thread deffinately WAS A LOT OF CLEANING lol
Talk the manager to going to a range and getting her own CCW

 

[LibShooter]

...a security officer's gun is to protect them, not property.

If that's the case for a uniformed security guard... then you surely don't want SniperX from accounting or LibShooter from the loading dock drawing a weapon to protect a TV.

If you're allowed, then carry your pistol at work. But remember its purpose at the office is the same as its purpose on the street: to protect your own safety.

 

[gun guy]

moving from employee to armed security changes things drastically, first any armed security, that doesnt wear a vest these days, is too stupid to comment on. So perhaps if she bought you a nice t-shirt type vest, (they make some nice ones you can wear with everyday clothes that dont look like you're part of the EOD bomb squad as a perk, you might consider it, and changing status to armed security changes the pay status alot, so, favors are great, but putting your life on the line in a possible gunfight is alot to ask for free. run this all past the company lawyer too, does she own the property, etc. make sure of all the little things, get it all in writing as well, beneifits if you are injured, indemnity from law suits, its not as simple as just bringing a gun to work.

 

[TexasBill]

SniperX: You are not, and you don't want to be, a security guard. New Mexico has some pretty serious regulations regarding security guards and I don't think you want to make the investment of time and money it would take to comply. Besides, NM law requires that you wear your guard license in a visible place on your garments - you can leave your CCW permit in your wallet, out of sight.

It would be nice to get extra money, but if conditions are as you describe them, the money may not be there. Don't try to shake the boss down, either; you're not offering that kind of "protection." The reality is that you have a job and millions don't.

Carry your weapon for your protection; coming to the aid of someone else who is in mortal peril seems to be accepted in New Mexico, so just treat it as that and don't mention the special arrangement you have with your boss - it would just complicate things.

 

[ccsniper]

I'd be pretty tempted to tell her politely to stuff it. I would definitely explain that having a CCW does not make you armed security.

So she's asking you to either shoot someone or die to defend what's hers?

I don't think so.

Honestly this entire situation just sounds like one big red flag from start to finish to me.

When I read the OP I was thinking "Awesome!!! A boss who feels better knowing that guns can stop crime and not only commit crime." But it seems as if almost everyone on here wants to do nothing more than tear down the woman for asking a question.

If a good friend of yours said, "I feel better because you know martial arts" would you be offended that they found comfort that someone they were with knew how to handle themselves? She clearly is saying "You simply being here gives me comfort" NOT "Protect me".

 

[Sam1911]

But it seems as if almost everyone on here wants to do nothing more than tear down the woman for asking a question.

It is a knotty debate, and I understand where you are coming from. It is possible that some of the later suggestions (from the OP and from others) took the idea farther than it really needed to go (like getting paid more to be armed at work), but thinking a situation through to all logical ends is one of the GOOD things about a forum like this.

If she's saying, "Wow, the world is a dangerous place. I'd be fine with it if you carry your gun at work," that's a GREAT thing. Especially if she'd put that permission in writing somewhere so it doesn't become an issue later. (In general, any policy about employee's dress, conduct, possessions, behavior, etc. SHOULD be in writing. It just protects everyone.)

If she's saying, "I think our store might get robbed and I might be in danger, so I want you to carry a gun while you're here," that is not so good.

It is very tempting to think of things like this as casual arrangements between friends, with no repercussions. In harsher reality, though, this is an arrangement with your employer, which is always a tricky area. Having worked for friends and been friends with employers, I can say that the lines between expectations, favors, official duties, company time, personal time, promises, benefits, etc. get really muddy and can lead to more than hurt feelings.

Second, the law is a funny thing. Unless you and she have spoken to an attorney who specializes in such things, it would not be impossible for you to discover that your casual arrangement -- being between an employer and employee, especially if money, benefits, or other considerations were involved -- crosses certain legal lines. [Just as a hypothetical, if there is some altercation at the office (even no shots fired) and you end up testifying in court and it turns out that in the eyes of the state you've been acting as a security guard without the proper license -- whoops.] Just be sure you understand your legal footing.

Third, even at it's MOST benign, this is an arrangement (however casual) which involves actions and possibilities which can affect your very life, the lives of others, and your freedom. Tread very cautiously.

No berating, no denigrating your boss. Just a word of caution.

 

[o Unforgiven o]

It seems to me like some here have made rather drastic insights on a conversation they did not hear, and about a woman they have never met. The OP said she knew that he carried sometimes, and was worried about the possibility of an armed robbery so she asked him if he would carry regularly. I don't think she was asking if he would shoot the guy stealing a radio, nor would she use that as a threat against a disgruntled customer. I also don't think someone who is carrying at work automatically becomes armed security and I don't see that as being her intention.

Sounds to me like a good thing that your boss is encouraging you to carry at work just in case and I think you made the right decision to accept. She see's that you are responsible with a firearm and has asked you to carry so good for you man.

 

[TexasBill]

Sam1911 made the best suggestion: Have your boss put it in writing that all CCW permit holders may carry on the job. If she is uncomfortable with a blanket rule, she can add any conditions she wants, such as length of time on the job, type of work done, etc., that limits those who qualify.

Make sure it's not a condition of employment (i.e., no money is involved).

 

[MinnMooney]

You might suggest that she get her own permit, training and sidearm.

Excellent suggestion!

I'd accept the permission to carry at work but have her get her own self-protection, also.

Remember - When seconds count, your CCW employee is only a minute or two away.

 

[ms6852]

In an armed robbery, many times no one gets hurt unless their is someone trying to be a hero. My wife knows that just because I pack that the only time that gun comes out is if there is no other option. If we are at a restaurant or mall or church and some lunatic comes in blazing away than there is no option. If we get robbed or carjacked there is an option. I can always replace my wallet and credit cards and the same thing for my vehicle. I think WEREWOLF has a valid point too.