Buy AK, or modify the one I've got?

[Eightball]

Yeah, the title says it all. Soon enough I'll have somewhere in the nieghborhood of $315~$380 disposable cash (outside of my bank account), and I have a conundrum facing me. I have the choice of either purchasing another AK or modifying my current model.

If I bought one, obviously price is an issue, but I'd want one that takes normal (not some 10-round model ) mags, and possibly some folding stock (gotta take advantage of the AWB being dead ). I've got ammo aplenty since I've got an SKS, so no worries on that front--I just hope to get some suggestions fitting those criteria.

Or, I could use that money and modify my stock Saiga .308 (not converted ). I'd get a PSO 8x42 optic, get a Harris bipod installed, and get an SVD sling, maybe some surplus Russian case (for "the look" ).

What does the mighty oracle of THR suggest?

 

[Cesiumsponge]

Modify the Saiga! I modified my S12 and never regretted it. Even had fun cutting off the "dang tang" and slapped on an Ace flush receiver block, folding joint, and skeletonized stock back in late September (flush receiver block added a few months later when it came out) to celebrate the downfall of the AWB. I still have a perfectly good ACE receiver block that utilizes the stock tang as a mounting point.

If you don't want to chop the tang off, and if I can find it, I have no real use for it.

*edit, found it.

Here is the Ace stuff I speak of: http://www.aceltdusa.com/ak.htm
and the modular stocks: http://www.aceltdusa.com/stocks.htm

 

[MartinS]

I like the idea of a "sporting purposes" Kalashnikov. So, my Saiga 308 will stay a carbine du chasse and my SAR 1 will be the tough, dirty girl my parents wouldn't like.

 

[Eightball]

For the sheer sake of pointing it out--my Saiga would just get a new coat of paint, not a new body kit. I would keep the Saiga as it came (sporting style stock), but still put on bipod, scope, sling and such--IF I am to do that option. Mayhaps I should have clarified that. Anyhow, now that that's said, are there any others willing to put forth an opinon? Please?

 

[Solo]

Get another AK. You know you want another one.

 

[Eightball]

....I can't deny that I want another one, I'm just seeing what the mighty THR says is the best use of my money at this point, since I could well pursue either option. Though, if I was to get another AK, what could I get with those constraints? For those who found it hard to find the restrictions, here they are again--
Must cost $380 or less (I might get a few more bucks soon, but no gurantee)
Must take normal mags (no castrated 10 round AKs )
Must be able to accept a folding stock, if not already on there (gotta take advantage of the AWB's death ). Once again, does anyone else have any words they'd like to say? I'm open to suggestions/offers

 

[Solo]

These any good?
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976319368.htm
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976569902.htm

 

[clange]

Both are WASR-10s. I'd want to see mine in person to check for mag fit and canted parts, but both should function alright. The first one has a crappy stock, but has all the evil stuff. The second has a very good folding stock, but no threaded muzzle or bayo lug.

I'd say look around for a no-ban (threaded muzzle and bayo lug) WASR-10, fixed wood stock. Try and track down a romanian folding stock when you're ready. It just replaces the wood stock, so actually any stamped AK of normal receiver thickness would accept one with very very minimal work. All i had to do with mine was work on the two screws a bit, they were the only problem.

The tough thing is, no retailers have romanian folders anymore, so price is going up as availability drops.

A SAR-1 could be an option as well, but you pay a bit more for the authenticity. Plus side is its about as close as you can get to a real military AKM receiver, bad side is the muzzle isnt threaded and theres no bayo lug. These issues can be fixed, but cost money. You should be able to find nice used SARs for mid 300s, same as a no-ban WASR.

 

[Eightball]

What's the main difference between WASR, SAR, and some of the other types/models out there on the market? From what I've read around here, one or another of the acronym-named rifles is originally restriced to the 10 round mags. I don't wanna get sapped of my $$$ for some crappy "ban-erized/restriced 10 round" rifle .

 

[pmbiker]

WASR was imported as a single stack rifle and converted to take all ak hicap mags. The real problem with the wasr, and the sar before it is the crappy finish, canted sight/gas block and cheap trigger parts.

The wasr is the only inexpensive romanian ak currently available by retail. It's a good idea to buy from a dealer that has like 10 or more so that you may cherry pick the best one in person. Rifles can be re-finished and trigger parts replaced without too much trouble, canted sight or gas block takes more work and $$.

A wasr or mass produced kit build are really the only options in your price range. Just don't expect much in the way of looks and you won't be dissapointed.

 

[Eightball]

Looks? An AK is supposed to look like something other than a beat-down, reliable war-horse of a gun? I don't care how it looks, as long as it works (well, I did see a picture of a pink AR once, but other than that......) Kit guns are fine, as long as they work well. Furniture can be replaced (the buttstock will be), things can be refinished, no biggie. Any specific kit things I should be looking for, other than defects/assembly issues? Any questions need asking before I buy?

 

[wally]

Buy now, you can always modify later, who knows when the supply will dry up or be cut off by some "executive order" or UN treaty.

I also definitely recommend larger gun shows or very well stocked dealers so you can pick the best of the lot and not get stuck with canted sights and or gas block on a blind order. I'm happy with my pair of Romanian (one fixed, one folder) but I passed on a dozen or more before I plunked down the cash for these.

Save a bit more, I just stumbled onto a very nice pre-ban config (bayonette lug, flash hider, black plastic furniture) Maadi for $450 out the door at today's Pasadena "High Caliber" gun show. Much nicer than my fixed stock Romanian for only ~$100 more. I was looking for one of the Polish underfolders from Military Gun Supply as advertised in the most recent Shotgun News, but he didn't have any yet, so I wandered around a bit and found this Maadi. Romanians were ~$320+tax and most looked good but I wasn't shopping critically for them, maybe CAI's assembly monkeys are finially getting the hang of it

Don't be in a hurry, but be ready to pounce when you finally find what you like.

--wally.

 

[Eightball]

Okay, now that the whole WASR/SAR thing has been explained....which countries/companies are good, which countries/companies are bad? Like, where does a Maadi fit in when compared to european nation's models? I'm just a little befuddled as to what's out there, and where the quality lies. Once again *as usual* any and all help is appreciated.

 

[MAUSER88]

Convert!!!

 

[pmbiker]

I'll tell you my preferences and requirements and you decide for yourself.
First, don't touch any rifle built on a B-west or hesse reciever. Bwest let out a large number of recievers with no heat treating. I don't know how many or what serial #'s so I avoid them. Hesse just carries a bad rep in the ak world so again, I'll leave it on the table.

The majority of kit builds will be built on the Ohio Ordinance Works reciever. It has been the standard for years, but it's not perfect. If the builder isn't top shelf, some issues can lead to problems. Specifically selector hole location is off and OAL is long so it SHOULD be trimmed by the builder. And it is only spot heat treated around the trunnion holes and pin holes, so draw your own conclusion. One other thing is kinda technical and most will say I'm being picky. The stamped ak reciever is supposed to have a step running long ways on the top rail. This is to give correct clearance(tolerance)for the bolt carrier to run on. OOW recievers do not have this and your bolt carrier will be looser than on a standard ak. Combine the BC rattling down the rails with no heat treating on said rails and logic tells me wear will be accelerated.
I know it's just an ak, but it's still my money and I want it right.

Currently the Armory USA/GLobal trades recievers are the best choice though they have some cosmetic details that turn off the purists. Mag dimple isn't correct, but still fully functional. And the bottom is cut for a double hook trigger which isn't historically correct for a stamped reciever. Top rail dimensions, hole locations and heat treating are all correct.

Ewbank MFG has a new reciever which seems stamped from the Hesse dies. They appear to have solved the issues from before and these may be a good alternative, too new to tell.

I'll link to a thread on another forum which will state all the info I have and much more, it was written by a well known builder and should be trusted.

Reciever comparison

 

[elokoman]

My $0.02 is: go with another AK. While the Saiga mods make for an exceptionally nice rifle, part of what you may want to consider is potential re-sale value if you have changing fortunes. If you have to cash in your "chips" some day, my opinion is: you would do better with a stock Saiga plus an AK, than with only a modified Saiga. Personally, I would look for a lightly used AK, you will save $50 to $150 (or more) over new, and since these guns are good for thousands and thousands of rounds, you are good to go for the long haul.

 

[Eightball]

Going with another AK sounds like the way to go; besides, I don't like the idea of messing with my Saiga that much (and hey, I like having more guns ). So, get a used AK, get a "new" AK---which is better? And, where do I look to be able to tell if there's anything wrong with the reciever/sights without taking the thing apart (since, odds are the place won't like unscrewing one of their weapons just so I can look at the internals)? Thanks, everyone, for your help so far, I appreciate it. If this thread eventually boils down into an argument of "buy this AK instead of that one", etc, that's fine--it allows me to see what the opinions are on stuff that's out there .

 

[desert_scorpion]

buy the AK

to bad you dont live out west, I see alot of no-ban aks coming out of the socialist republic of California for under $300 with all the frills. No kidding, they are a dime a dozen out here in the west. As a matter of fact the gun shop down the street from me has a used Romainian AK that came from CA and is on the rack for approx. $325 and some change. Look around and buy the new AK.