Buyers Remorse? Home Defense/Tactical Shotgun
- Thread starter Johnny Guzman
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oneounceload,
You're not hearing me. I don't want the shotgun to be fully loaded plus have additional shells on the side saddle. The purpose of a side saddle is to keep the gun unloaded yet I would have the shells on the saddle so they are easily accessible so I can load them quickly.
I originally got the 6 shot saddle because my shotgun can hold 6 rounds (it's 7+1). At first I figured whats the point of having the 7+1 if I was only going to load it with 4 rounds. But nowI figure 4 rounds should be enough for HD. I'll make use of it's 7+1 capacity on the range. Get me?
You're not hearing me. I don't want the shotgun to be fully loaded plus have additional shells on the side saddle. The purpose of a side saddle is to keep the gun unloaded yet I would have the shells on the saddle so they are easily accessible so I can load them quickly.
I originally got the 6 shot saddle because my shotgun can hold 6 rounds (it's 7+1). At first I figured whats the point of having the 7+1 if I was only going to load it with 4 rounds. But nowI figure 4 rounds should be enough for HD. I'll make use of it's 7+1 capacity on the range. Get me?
No this is not 100% child proof. However a small child being able to pull the trigger of a loaded gun is very simple and it does happen. A small child being able to figure out how to press the release while pumping the shotgun back, then loading a shell into the chamber, then pumping it forward, not so much.
bannockburn
Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
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- 26,319
I kept my Model 88 pretty much stock adding only a Limbsaver butt pad and a buttstock shell holder. Works just fine in that set-up for home defense.
Mine was a 5+1 18" gun. The side saddle was for both capacity as well as ammo selection. A few 00 Buck, slugs and PDX1s. Usually just the 00 and few slugs. The gun had one very specific purpose, to hold the top of the stairs to the second floor. Anything that I would risk my life for is behind me at that point. Good luck to the bad guy(s) determined enough to give it a try. I have other firearms suited to other roles.
Initially I did not keep the gun loaded at all. Eventually, once I was comfortable, I kept the magazine full and chamber empty, safety off. I had been away from shooting for a long time and it took some time to get comfortable again. It was the same way when I got back into 1911's. The thought of a condition-1 1911 on my hip made me nervous. I took the advice of carrying it C/L but empty around the house until you are comfortable that it is truly safe. No problems now.
A lot of my perspective is driven by a Negligent Discharge I had in the 80's. Rattled me bad and I was damn lucky that I was following some form of good muzzle discipline and no was hurt. It still causes me pause to this day.
As far as kids, mine are all old (14-18) enough and have enough trigger time to be safe. They all have been around the guns enough to know their purpose.
I'm not here to tell you what is right for you. My .02 would be keep researching, go out do some shooting to get proficient with the gun. You will figure out what works best for you and the gun in it's intended role.
Initially I did not keep the gun loaded at all. Eventually, once I was comfortable, I kept the magazine full and chamber empty, safety off. I had been away from shooting for a long time and it took some time to get comfortable again. It was the same way when I got back into 1911's. The thought of a condition-1 1911 on my hip made me nervous. I took the advice of carrying it C/L but empty around the house until you are comfortable that it is truly safe. No problems now.
A lot of my perspective is driven by a Negligent Discharge I had in the 80's. Rattled me bad and I was damn lucky that I was following some form of good muzzle discipline and no was hurt. It still causes me pause to this day.
As far as kids, mine are all old (14-18) enough and have enough trigger time to be safe. They all have been around the guns enough to know their purpose.
I'm not here to tell you what is right for you. My .02 would be keep researching, go out do some shooting to get proficient with the gun. You will figure out what works best for you and the gun in it's intended role.
Oooh. I think maybe you're uncertain about WHAT to have buyer's remorse about.
A pistol-grip-ONLY? Ok, you should lose that thing. Without experience to tell the difference, I'm sure it seems ok (I had one on a shotgun for years and know exactly how good they are) but it is a serious handicap even in tight quarters. It is movie prop nonsense. Until you get to a range and run some drills against a timer (lol, probably don't even need the timer to see the difference, but just to dive the point home...) you'll have to take our word for it. Or read our departed friend Dave McCracken's excellent treatise: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=44465
Folks agreeing with your choice of a pistol grip were assuming you meant something like this:
Those can be useful, though on Mossberg 500 type guns they make the safety hard to reach.
PGOs sold to average folks are a pointlessly bad adaptation of something only useful for an extremely limited task in LEO and military settings (door breaching).
The side-saddle isn't a bad idea though a butt cuff is just about as good and does a better job of balancing the gun. (Once you get the right stock on it, of course.) Balance is important in a shotgun (though obviously there's no balance to a PGO). A white light is a fantastic idea as you MUST identify your target somehow and it is difficult to use a hand-held light with a long gun in your hands.
Oh, and every time you find yourself asking how cool or badass it looks? Slap yourself. Just a little. Then go buy another case of ammo and go practice SHOOTING it. If you aren't setting it up for optimal utility and then running it until the bluing's worn half off to make sure YOU can do the job, it isn't cool or badass. Just sort of a sad little false hope.
Hope that's helpful!
A pistol-grip-ONLY? Ok, you should lose that thing. Without experience to tell the difference, I'm sure it seems ok (I had one on a shotgun for years and know exactly how good they are) but it is a serious handicap even in tight quarters. It is movie prop nonsense. Until you get to a range and run some drills against a timer (lol, probably don't even need the timer to see the difference, but just to dive the point home...) you'll have to take our word for it. Or read our departed friend Dave McCracken's excellent treatise: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=44465
Folks agreeing with your choice of a pistol grip were assuming you meant something like this:
Those can be useful, though on Mossberg 500 type guns they make the safety hard to reach.
PGOs sold to average folks are a pointlessly bad adaptation of something only useful for an extremely limited task in LEO and military settings (door breaching).
The side-saddle isn't a bad idea though a butt cuff is just about as good and does a better job of balancing the gun. (Once you get the right stock on it, of course.) Balance is important in a shotgun (though obviously there's no balance to a PGO). A white light is a fantastic idea as you MUST identify your target somehow and it is difficult to use a hand-held light with a long gun in your hands.
Oh, and every time you find yourself asking how cool or badass it looks? Slap yourself. Just a little. Then go buy another case of ammo and go practice SHOOTING it. If you aren't setting it up for optimal utility and then running it until the bluing's worn half off to make sure YOU can do the job, it isn't cool or badass. Just sort of a sad little false hope.
Hope that's helpful!The best way I know of to challenge yourself and your equipment is to take a good basic defensive shotgun class. It's also a good time to address specific questions that might not be covered in the class. No one here is likely to be able to offer you better suggestions than you will get in that environment.
1madss,
I hear you. If I lived alone I would be completely comfortable with a loaded gun. I would keep the mag loaded but chamber empty. I would be comfortable because I know it would only be me handling it and I know that there would be no kids wanting to check it out. I'm not comfortable with just telling them to never touch it or else.
When I was a kid I was told repeatedly not to touch my pops' guns but I thought they were too bad ass so I still sneaked into the closet to check them out. I have no clue if they were loaded at the time. I have no clue if they were drop safe. I don't want these kids to do what I did when I was a kid and something bad happen.
At the same time I don't want to have to lock my gun into a vault in an underground bunker. It needs to be accessible in an emergency situation so I'm trying to find some middle ground.
I hear you. If I lived alone I would be completely comfortable with a loaded gun. I would keep the mag loaded but chamber empty. I would be comfortable because I know it would only be me handling it and I know that there would be no kids wanting to check it out. I'm not comfortable with just telling them to never touch it or else.
When I was a kid I was told repeatedly not to touch my pops' guns but I thought they were too bad ass so I still sneaked into the closet to check them out. I have no clue if they were loaded at the time. I have no clue if they were drop safe. I don't want these kids to do what I did when I was a kid and something bad happen.
At the same time I don't want to have to lock my gun into a vault in an underground bunker. It needs to be accessible in an emergency situation so I'm trying to find some middle ground.
Sam1911,
I used a 20 gauge 870 LW for hunting large and small game as well target shooting since I was 17 (29 now). I can handle the 12 gauge with pistol grip just fine at the range. I can definitely see a disadvantage to hunting large game with a pistol grip considering you're trying to hit your target from 50+ yards away. In a home defense scenario a target will be know more than 10 yards in my home.
I used a 20 gauge 870 LW for hunting large and small game as well target shooting since I was 17 (29 now). I can handle the 12 gauge with pistol grip just fine at the range. I can definitely see a disadvantage to hunting large game with a pistol grip considering you're trying to hit your target from 50+ yards away. In a home defense scenario a target will be know more than 10 yards in my home.
Don't worry about how it looks, the bad guy will only see the end of the barrel. I have a side saddle on my Benneli with a +2 extender, unloaded. If I needed more than 7 rounds of 12 gauge, I would be remodeling soon after, having, hopefully lived through it. You should have your pistol on you also should you find the need to go for the shotgun. If there were a situation where someone was "holding" another family member, I would not trust a shotgun to make even a, "not so close shot", "like 18 inches to 2 feet, where with a pistol, at 10 or 15 feet that would be a simple shot to make, and might save a life.
I believe that if you go back to your original post and replace the word "bad" with the word "dumb", you'll be on the right track.
All the tacti-cool stuff in the world won't do you a bit of good if you don't invest the time and money to learn how to run the weapon. AFTER you know what you're doing, you'll know what to add to address any legitimate shortcomings you may find in the basic platform. Now, that's purely my opinion, and worth every penny you paid for it....
All the tacti-cool stuff in the world won't do you a bit of good if you don't invest the time and money to learn how to run the weapon. AFTER you know what you're doing, you'll know what to add to address any legitimate shortcomings you may find in the basic platform. Now, that's purely my opinion, and worth every penny you paid for it....
If you want to keep the gun away from kids, buy a safe. Heck, if you just want to lock it up, a cheap metal gun-locker will do the job. Open it up at night time if you want quick access, and lock it up when you leave. Then load the mag tube, and to have a ready to deploy weapon, that protected from unwanted hands...
If that still doesn't work, ditch the shotgun, and get a pistol, holster, and a concealed carry permit. Keep your gun on your person at all times, and you will never wonder if the kids are messing with it somewhere else. And it will always be ready to deploy...
And seriously dude, ditch the Pistol Grip.
If that still doesn't work, ditch the shotgun, and get a pistol, holster, and a concealed carry permit. Keep your gun on your person at all times, and you will never wonder if the kids are messing with it somewhere else. And it will always be ready to deploy...
And seriously dude, ditch the Pistol Grip.
" I used a 20 gauge 870 LW for hunting large and small game as well target shooting since I was 17 (29 now). I can handle the 12 gauge with pistol grip just fine at the range. I can definitely see a disadvantage to hunting large game with a pistol grip considering you're trying to hit your target from 50+ yards away. In a home defense scenario a target will be know more than 10 yards in my home. "
Try loading it from the side saddle with any considerable speed, or getting multiple shots on-target faster (or even as fast) than with a full-stocked shotgun. It's not about handling recoil, it's about giving yourself the best weapon to work with. You're only hindering yourself with a pistol grip only shotgun.
And you're also hindering yourself with a full saddle/empty tube. Ditch the side-saddle, load the tube, and invest in a quick-access safe, of even one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/GunVault-BV-01-Breech-Vault-Safe/dp/B001LZV3K4
It will be infinitely easier to roll out of bed and unlock this than load up the gun.
Try loading it from the side saddle with any considerable speed, or getting multiple shots on-target faster (or even as fast) than with a full-stocked shotgun. It's not about handling recoil, it's about giving yourself the best weapon to work with. You're only hindering yourself with a pistol grip only shotgun.
And you're also hindering yourself with a full saddle/empty tube. Ditch the side-saddle, load the tube, and invest in a quick-access safe, of even one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/GunVault-BV-01-Breech-Vault-Safe/dp/B001LZV3K4
It will be infinitely easier to roll out of bed and unlock this than load up the gun.
My thought exactly. I wonder if the OP has used potent home defense loads with that beast.
KISS is a good rule of thumb with shotguns. The clamp-on light mounts are cheap and can hold up under tremendous recoil stress. Small, fine parts tend to fall apart. A side-saddle shell holder is fine, but rails are likely to cut you up and for most users serve no real purpose other than looking cool. Folding stocks are solely for storage in a small space or transportation.
Here's my overall suggestion--start shooting it. Get some training or at least get a good DVD on home defense shotgun. Clint at Thunder Ranch has a fine one with solid advice. Get some range time in with it, running drills. THEN you can start to add gadgets to the default shotgun, based on what you actually need (if anything). I think a light is good, and a shoulder stock. Beyond that just see what will truly help you.
If you don't like the side saddle, get a shoulder sling with shell loops. Not as stable as a side saddle but they do work. As for storage....a set of large screw in wall hooks inside a closet above the door can work well. It will keep the gun out of reach of little kids (at least for awhile) otherwise you will need a safe or cabinet for storage. I had a steel stack on gun cabinet for years. I would just unlock it at night and close it in the morning. the key stayed on my keyring so I would not forget. You being in California I would lean for the cabinet.
marksman13
Member
Pgo = pos
There is honestly zero applications in which a pistol grip only is superior to a full length stock on a shotgun. Even door breaching guns don't gain any benefit from being PGOs unless it is just a space saving measure. My advice is to ditch the pistol grip and get a Speed-Feed stock if you want extra rounds. (And yes, I realize that you don't want "extra" rounds, but rather rounds available for an otherwise unloaded gun.)
Keeping the gun unloaded, but having rounds available just doesn't make a lot of sense. I realize that you think this is a brilliant concept, but the truth is, it's just not that great of an idea. You lose all the benefits of having the gun readily available and ready to go while not really providing any additional safety for your kids. If they can figure out how to rack the slide, they can figure out how to insert a shell. You are building a false sense of security for yourself on a couple of different levels and you are basically sticking your nose up at the folks trying to help you see that.
There is honestly zero applications in which a pistol grip only is superior to a full length stock on a shotgun. Even door breaching guns don't gain any benefit from being PGOs unless it is just a space saving measure. My advice is to ditch the pistol grip and get a Speed-Feed stock if you want extra rounds. (And yes, I realize that you don't want "extra" rounds, but rather rounds available for an otherwise unloaded gun.)
Keeping the gun unloaded, but having rounds available just doesn't make a lot of sense. I realize that you think this is a brilliant concept, but the truth is, it's just not that great of an idea. You lose all the benefits of having the gun readily available and ready to go while not really providing any additional safety for your kids. If they can figure out how to rack the slide, they can figure out how to insert a shell. You are building a false sense of security for yourself on a couple of different levels and you are basically sticking your nose up at the folks trying to help you see that.
I don't keep it loaded, but instead keep a few five round boxes on the shelf above it in the gun safe...yep I keep my home defense guns locked in a gun safe. Keeping them locked in a safe isn't a problem because the door of the room cant be breached once it's shut and the safe is open.
I have an 18 year old son and although he is a disciplined shooter his friends may not be and since you can never really know who your teenagers might have in the house it's best to keep them locked up just as you would with much younger children.
Also wanted to add that I rely on my dogs to let me know there is an intruder on the property. The yard dogs will let the house dog (and anyone else within a few miles of the residence!) know that someone is on the property. If you don't (or can't) have dogs I suppose you will have the need to come up with a logical and safe means of keeping your home defense weapons and ammo more readily available yet out of the reach of your children.
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If you like the stuff and think you need it, keep it. Everyone has different tastes that's why there are so many different guns on the market. I keep shells in the magazine but not the chamber. The springs in a shotgun magazine are pretty resilient and it won't hurt them a bit. As far as child proofing just use common sense and it will be fine.
I am not a shotgun fan in any sense, rifles, yes, shotguns, no. Sold off my Mossberg 835 turkey gun, since it was cheaper and easier to just go to Jewel and buy one. (LOL)
But I did think I needed one for home/self defense. Shotguns are practical not pretty, except the over and under for around $5,000 (beyond my resources).
So buck it up and accept your shotgun for what it is. (an A kicker).
Jim
Here's mine.
Jim
Keep it Simple (KISS)
But I did think I needed one for home/self defense. Shotguns are practical not pretty, except the over and under for around $5,000 (beyond my resources).
So buck it up and accept your shotgun for what it is. (an A kicker).
Jim
Here's mine.
Jim
Keep it Simple (KISS)
I'm a big fan of having a decent light on any bedside/home defense specific gun. I know for me personally (because I work first shift), there's a greater chance of using said gun when it's completely dark out as apposed to well-lit. I never did like look of the universal lights clamped on the mag tube. It just looked cheap to me even if it was truely functional.
When my Benelli served as a home protection gun, I had a Surefire foregrip with built in light. It was excellent. Now that I retired the benelli from that duty, the factory foregrip went back on. A Glock replaced it and I put a light on it.
In regards to the side saddle; I don't think they look terrible. Having more ammo on hand is never a bad thing either. But after having one on my shotgun for many years, I can honestly say I can live without it. I just have no good reason to remove it.
And because I'm a picture whore, here's what my Benelli looked like when it was my go-to home gun:
When my Benelli served as a home protection gun, I had a Surefire foregrip with built in light. It was excellent. Now that I retired the benelli from that duty, the factory foregrip went back on. A Glock replaced it and I put a light on it.
In regards to the side saddle; I don't think they look terrible. Having more ammo on hand is never a bad thing either. But after having one on my shotgun for many years, I can honestly say I can live without it. I just have no good reason to remove it.
And because I'm a picture whore, here's what my Benelli looked like when it was my go-to home gun:
FAS1
Member
When I decided to buy a shotgun for home defense, the Beretta 1201FP had everything I was looking for. Simple and functional. And I thought is was pretty cool looking just the way it came.
20 years later, it's still my HD shotgun. The Choate combination stock it came with works well for me.
20 years later, it's still my HD shotgun. The Choate combination stock it came with works well for me.
Get a safe and keep it loaded.
Sometimes tacticool accessories don't look as good on one gun as they do on the others. My suggestion would be to try others. There's a reason why you thought you'd like the look with the accessories, and it's probably because you saw one before that was more aesthetically pleasing. Usually the best looking stuff, it the most expensive.
Sometimes tacticool accessories don't look as good on one gun as they do on the others. My suggestion would be to try others. There's a reason why you thought you'd like the look with the accessories, and it's probably because you saw one before that was more aesthetically pleasing. Usually the best looking stuff, it the most expensive.
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