Buying a handgun

[Bonesinium]

For you military types, where do you buy your handguns? (what state) I'm not asking about what particular state but rather...

Scenerio: Your legal state of residence is state A. You live in state B, which is nearby to state C in which you are stationed.

As a member of the military, your legal state of residence is the state you claim, based on where you plan to reside when you get out. (state A) Federal law says you can only buy a handgun in your state or residence.

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/homeofrecord.htm
Legal Residency," or "domicile", on the other hand refers to the place where a military member intends to return to and live after discharge or retirement, and which they consider their "permanent home.

An individual 21 years of age or older may acquire a handgun from a dealer federally licensed to sell firearms in the individual`s state of residence

According to the ATF

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#state-residency
A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained.

So they say if you live in state B but are stationed in state C, then you have 2 states of residence and may buy a gun in either.

So where do you buy your handguns? In state A, state B, state C, or any of them? Legally you are a resident of state A, but the ATF says you can buy in states B and C...

It seems like if you are in the military you could legally purchase a handgun in up to 3 different states! This doesn't seem right.

 

[USAF_Vet]

If State A is where you lived prior to or plan to live after your tour of duty and
State B is the state where you are stationed, you may buy in either state.

I was a resident of Kentucky prior to enlistment, changed my residency to Florida after enlistment, and was station in California. But since my drivers license was a Califonia license, I was considered a resident of California, even though my state income tax went to Kentucky, and later, Florida. As it happened, I didn't even attempt a hand gun purchase in Ca. But as I recall, I would have needed state issued ID from Kentucky/Florida to buy a gun in Kentucky/Florida. Since all I had was my military ID and California drivers license, I had no way of proving I was a resident of any state other than Ca. I don't believe a tax statement would cut it.
But I do think active military can buy firearms in their home state (with proper ID) and the state in which they are stationed.

 

[Coyote3855]

Not in the military at present. I think, however, that I can buy a handgun in almost any state as long as the transfer goes through an FFL in my state of residence. Adds shipping and fees to the price of the handgun, of course.

 

[Mags]

You can only buy handguns in either the state of your home of record or the state in which you have PCS orders assigning you in that state. If you are stationed in NC and live in SC but your home of record is TX you cannot buy guns in SC unless you change your residency to SC therefore forefeiting your TX residency. You can always buy handguns in your home station state with orders. You cannot be a dual citizen in two states you have to chose one, just because you live in SC does not make you a resident. You will have to get a SC DL and turn in your TX DL.

 

[hermannr]

Ok guys, this is a brain teaser for you. When I was in the US military (US Army) my drivers license (yes, the whole 8 years) was from BC, Canada. My Home of Records was also in BC. During the 8 years I was in the Army, I stationed all over the US, (CA, NJ, GA, AL, OK, WA) did a tour+ in Vietnam and a tour in Germany. (BTW: some of those 8 years were prior to 1968, I was in Vietnam in 68 and 69, and Germany from 70-74 I was naturalized as a US citizen in 1970)

I did not attempt to purchase any weapons while I was in the Army, though I did privately trade for a Ruger Bearcat, So: where could I have legally purchased a firearm? I already owned several, and they (handguns) were stored in WA and (long guns) Alberta while I was out of the US.

 

[rajb123]

I would choose to be a resident in the state with little or no income tax if I was provided with a choice.

 

[Bonesinium]

Not in the military at present. I think, however, that I can buy a handgun in almost any state as long as the transfer goes through an FFL in my state of residence. Adds shipping and fees to the price of the handgun, of course.

Of course, it has to go through an FFL in your state of residence. I know this. But what is concidered your state of residence is the question. The ATF says it could be one of 2, but your legal state of residence is another. So what one of the three is it?

You have a DL from state A. You live in state B. You are stationed in state C.

I would choose to be a resident in the state with little or no income tax if I was provided with a choice.

This question is about purchasing a handgun, not about paying taxes.

You can only buy handguns in either the state of your home of record or the state in which you have PCS orders assigning you in that state. If you are stationed in NC and live in SC but your home of record is TX you cannot buy guns in SC unless you change your residency to SC therefore forefeiting your TX residency. You can always buy handguns in your home station state with orders. You cannot be a dual citizen in two states you have to chose one, just because you live in SC does not make you a resident. You will have to get a SC DL and turn in your TX DL.

You are right, you can't be a dual resident. But the ATF says you can for buying firearms, as I cited, yet neither of those states are your home of record nor state of residence. That is the question. If your Drivers License is from TX, you live in SC, and are stationed in NC, which of the 3 do you get it from?

 

[NavyLCDR]

as a member of the military, your legal state of residence is the state you claim, based on where you plan to reside when you get out. (state a) federal law says you can only buy a handgun in your state or residence.

not for the purposes of firearms transactions!

Any person, military or not, may have multiple states of residence for the purposes of firearms transactions. HOWEVER, a military member's Home of Record state, may not qualify as a state of residence for the purposes of firearms transactions. AND... where a person PLANS on living, definitely does NOT qualify for a state of residence for firearms transactions.

Federal law states that there are TWO conditions, either of which must be met to be a resident of a state for the purposes of firearms transactions:

1. PRESENCE in a state with the intention of making a home there.
2. Permanent duty station orders to a state.

For example,
I am from Wyoming, I have a Wyoming driver's license. Wyoming is NOT a legal state of residence for me for the purposes of firearms transactions because I am not PRESENT in Wyoming with the intention of making a home there. It does not matter if I plan on retiring there or not. I am NOT present there now with the intention of making a home there.

Now... if I have a home there, in my name, and I go to that home on leave, and that home is reserved for my present use, then during the time I reside in that home, Wyoming is my state of residence for firearms transactions.

But... if I have a home there, and I rent that home to someone else, and that home is not reserved for my use, and I go back to Wyoming on vacation and stay in a motel, or with friends, or with parents, I am not currently present in Wyoming with the intention of making a home there... I am visiting... therefore Wyoming is NOT my state of residence for firearms transactions.

Now, if I have orders to Washington, and I live in Oregon, both Oregon AND Washington are my legal states of residence for firearms transactions.

If I have orders to a base that spreads across two states, I am a legal resident of both states the base is in for the purposes of firearms transactions... and if I go to a third state to sleep every night, that state is my state of legal residence for firearms transactions as well.

Merely having a driver's license, paying taxes, or being registered to vote in a state does NOT establish residency for firearms transactions - one must actually be PRESENT in that state with the CURRENT intention of making a home there during that presence.

 

[postalnut25]

So you can purchase a handgun in all three locations. I kept my Colorado license and was able to purchase when home on leave. I used my vehicle registration & utility bill as proof living in another state. You could buy from the base PX (provided it sold firearms) as long as you could supply a set of orders permanently assigning you to that base. Most of the local stores, and the PX gun counter, told me what I required.

 

[Shadow 7D]

My understanding was you may purchase a firearm in your HOMESTATE or the state that your are stationed in (would TDY on orders count???)

One with state issued ID,
the other with Military ID and ORDERS

 

[NavyLCDR]

27 CFR 478.11:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...iv8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.2.1.1&idno=27

§ 478.11 Meaning of terms.
When used in this part and in forms prescribed under this part, where not otherwise distinctly expressed or manifestly incompatible with the intent thereof, terms shall have the meanings ascribed in this section. Words in the plural form shall include the singular, and vice versa, and words importing the masculine gender shall include the feminine. The terms “includes” and “including” do not exclude other things not enumerated which are in the same general class or are otherwise within the scope thereof.



State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I kept my Colorado license and was able to purchase when home on leave.

If you were home only on leave and did not maintain an actual residence in Colorado, then you committed a Federal felony.

 

[NavyLCDR]

To legally answer the poll question would be state b or state c. State b being the state I am present in with the intention of making a home there, state c being the state I am ordered to. State a is not a legal option, even though my driver's license is from state a.

BTW, I have been in the military 27 years and I am currently the Arms, Ammunition and Explosives Officer for my command of over 1,100 people. I screen servicemembers' records and approve or disapprove their issuance of small arms and approve their qualifications with small arms.

 

[postalnut25]

If you were home only on leave and did not maintain an actual residence in Colorado, then you committed a Federal felony.

Good thing I kept my place in Colorado.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Good thing I kept my place in Colorado.

Would you then fall under the dual states of residency clause, where you 'live' where you are?

Which is completely unrelated to the military part.

 

[leadcounsel]

The answer is that you can lawfully purchase in State A (state of permanent residence- with a valid state ID/address), State B (where you are stationed, with orders) and State C, the adjacent state in which you live and have a residence (with proof of residence).

 

[NavyLCDR]

The answer is that you can lawfully purchase in State A (state of permanent residence- with a valid state ID/address)

And would you care to provide a statute which defines home of record as a state of residence for the purposes of firearms transactions?

27 CFR 478.11 requires more than just paperwork, the statute requires PRESENCE AND intention to make a home there..

Home of Record in the military is ONLY a paperwork drill, and nothing else.

 

[Bonesinium]

Thank you for your response NavyLT. As you can see, this can be quite confusing, at least it is to me. When you read "state of residence", but your state of residence can mean different things based on what it is being applied to, it doesn't make things very clear. I appreciate your explanation(s). Who knew things could be so complicated.

So if state A is both your home of record and state of residence (according to the military), you posses an ID in that state, vote there, pay taxes there, spend your leave there, etc, but don't currently live there, it isn't a valid state to purchase handguns in? Who knew. Prior to going further into the regulations, it would seem like that IS the state you'd purchase your handguns from.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Thank you for your response NavyLT. As you can see, this can be quite confusing, at least it is to me. When you read "state of residence", but your state of residence can mean different things based on what it is being applied to

That is exactly correct, state of residence depends upon what situation it is applied to. You can be a resident of a state for some purposes, but not for others.

So if state A is both your home of record and state of residence (according to the military), you posses an ID in that state, vote there, pay taxes there, spend your leave there, etc, but don't currently live there, it isn't a valid state to purchase handguns in?

Correct. You must have a presence in that state with the intention of making a home there. Now, if you retain a house there, reserved for your own personal use, not rented to anybody, and you stay there periodically, then you are good to go. If you visit the state and stay with friends or relatives for only the duration of your leave, than it is obvious you don't intend on making a home there at that point in time.

The term "purchase" though.... technically it is legal to purchase a handgun "out-of-state". It is not legal to have it transferred to you out-of-state. I can "purchase" a handgun in any state - but the handgun that I have purchased must be shipped to an FFL in my state of residence for "transfer" to me.

Who knew. Prior to going further into the regulations, it would seem like that IS the state you'd purchase your handguns from.

And that's just it. You have to look at the regulations specific to firearms. Some people try applying all different kinds of laws, including driver's license laws, to firearms transactions. Firearms transactions are governed by their own set of laws and regulations.

 

[Bonesinium]

The term "purchase" though.... technically it is legal to purchase a handgun "out-of-state". It is not legal to have it transferred to you out-of-state. I can "purchase" a handgun in any state - but the handgun that I have purchased must be shipped to an FFL in my state of residence for "transfer" to me.

Of course. Maybe I wasn't clear, but that is what I meant and had hoped it would have been implied as well.