Buying an AK and not getting JUNK.

[Gelgoog]

Actually, a Saiga is cheaper than a WASR, not to mention being brand new, right out of the military factory.

Well I was actually thinking about the SGL "legion" series that Arsenal has which are fully converted saigas. Most people who want an AK do not want the neutered version

Such as the SGL-21

I myself prefer the Bulgarian SLR-106 series. The nice fit and 5.56x45 really start to tighten the accuracy gap between the AK-100 series and the AR15. I can usually pull 2-3 MOA with mine, maybe a bit better with match grade ammunition and a decent optic if I do my part.

my Krebs KTR-03 is still my favorite rifle, although that is probably out of the OP price range.


I will say it again though, a WASR is not inherently a bad rifle, but it is always going to be the bottom of the AK barrel so to speak. Most are poorly finished but reliable and will display acceptable groupings of 3-5 MOA. Throw in canted sights, excessive mag wobble, bad head spacing and often just worn out parts (like shot to **** barrels), and it can turn into something that will barrel even print on paper at 50 yards.

If you are wanting a quality AK that will live upto all the tales of AK reliability, while being able to keep up with modern designs then its pretty much either go with an AK-100 series gun like the SLR/SGL or go home.

Oh and stay away from Lancaster arms at all cost.

 

[Z-Michigan]

A WASR should have a chrome lined barrel, and AFAIK the Romanians are using cold hammer forging to make them just like most combloc countries.

The compliance parts installed by CIA would be the trigger group (mostly TAPCO G2 on recent ones, which is quite decent) and I'm not sure on the others but probably gas piston and plastic pistol grip.

 

[Spec ops Grunt]

Quote:
Actually, a Saiga is cheaper than a WASR, not to mention being brand new, right out of the military factory.
Well I was actually thinking about the SGL "legion" series that Arsenal has which are fully converted saigas. Most people who want an AK do not want the neutered version

Such as the SGL-21



I myself prefer the Bulgarian SLR-106 series. The nice fit and 5.56x45 really start to tighten the accuracy gap between the AK-100 series and the AR15. I can usually pull 2-3 MOA with mine, maybe a bit better with match grade ammunition and a decent optic if I do my part.



my Krebs KTR-03 is still my favorite rifle, although that is probably out of the OP price range.


I will say it again though, a WASR is not inherently a bad rifle, but it is always going to be the bottom of the AK barrel so to speak. Most are poorly finished but reliable and will display acceptable groupings of 3-5 MOA. Throw in canted sights, excessive mag wobble, bad head spacing and often just worn out parts (like shot to **** barrels), and it can turn into something that will barrel even print on paper at 50 yards.

If you are wanting a quality AK that will live upto all the tales of AK reliability, while being able to keep up with modern designs then its pretty much either go with an AK-100 series gun like the SLR/SGL or go home.

Oh and stay away from Lancaster arms at all cost.

Hahaha.


You funny guy.

 

[Girodin]

Go to this site to check out how actual people voted on just about every AK variant there is. None of the Romanian guns except for the Sniper version had a higher score than the 8.73 the Yugo M70AB2 has...

I wouldn't place any stock in non scientific polling. Those reviews are "for entertainment purposes only".

 

[Gelgoog]

Wrong. Romarms makes the WASR's for Century, they are new parts.

Actually they are and they arent.

The orignal WASR-10s were sporter rifles imported as single stack rifles.

the WASR-10/63 models are newly manufactured rifles from military rejected parts. (aka they werent good enough for the romanian military). But there are also some as of 2008 that are made from Demilled military rifles (identified by a triangle in front of the serial on the front trunion. So some are worn out military parts while others are substandard rejected parts....

now you might be lucky enough to find a GP-1975 which if we hear right were built on surplus parts kits intended for the military which never got used and have nodak spud recievers and green mountain barrels along with a G2 fire control group. But these are not technically WASRs.

 

[nalioth]

Go to this site to check out how actual people voted on just about every AK variant there is. None of the Romanian guns except for the Sniper version had a higher score than the 8.73 the Yugo M70AB2 has...

I wouldn't place any stock in non scientific polling. Those reviews are "for entertainment purposes only".

The purposes are much more monetary.

As I said before, that site isn't what it appears to be.

now you might be lucky enough to find a GP-1975 which if we hear right were built on surplus parts kits intended for the military which never got used and have nodak spud recievers and green mountain barrels along with a G2 fire control group. But these are not technically WASRs.

Sorry. I'd rather have the WASR than the Century "built-by-the-lowest-bidder" contraption with a muzzle-loader barrel and US-made commercial receiver.

 

[Gelgoog]

Sorry. I'd rather have the WASR than the Century "built-by-the-lowest-bidder" contraption with a muzzle-loader barrel and US-made commercial receiver.

I haven't personally inspected any of the GP-1975 models. But having handled plenty of the original WASR-10s and the WAS-10/63 I can say that I wouldnt take any of them.

The only Romanian guns that are worth a damn IMHO, are the original Intrac imports CUR-1/2/3, the Romaks, SAR-1/2, and the ratmil guns. Along with well built Romy-G kits.

Now original WASRs used to be a great buy at $150 a pop, but certainly not worth it at $400. Thats Saiga territory, and only a few hundred shy of an Arsenal.

Now if only they still imported Valmets and Veprs those were truely a cut above the rest.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

Quote:
Your best options currently are:

1. Buy a WASR for $400ish from you favorite retailer, Atlantic Firearms, Aimsurplus, LGS etc. If you buy it at the LGS you should be able to see if the front sight is canted.
1a. If you don't like the WASR you receive send it to Rifle Dynamics for a $300.00 WASR upgrade which will correct all the common problems and install their rear sight.
2. Buy a Saiga and convert it yourself. Or send it to your choice of smith for conversion.
3. If you want a side folder, then consider an Arsenal, its the only reason I would.
Or if he is set on buying a WASR, he could just buy it from Henderson Defense who inspect all their guns for the common issues.

Or he could buy a saiga or arsenal which are essentially new guns based on the modern AK-100 series of rifles that the russian military uses right now.

So his choice is buy the cheapest crap out there based on old possibly worn out parts that are often poorly assembled, or he could spend a few hundred more and get a quality AK that is modern and uses new parts and will have a much better fit and finish.

All AKs are not created equal, and you often get what you pay for. So why not buy once and cry only once?

Or if he is set on buying a WASR, he could just buy it from Henderson Defense who inspect all their guns for the common issues.

see

Buy a WASR for $400ish from you favorite retailer

if that is Henderson Defense good for you. For me, my LGS and Aimsurplus.com have always treated me well, I would rather do business with them over someone who offers the following "warranty:"

Henderson Defense "Certified" WASR Rifles:

We have gone through and inspected these rifles for straight rear sight bases, gas blocks and front sight bases. The magazine provided has been fitted to ensure proper lock up and removal. You won't have to worry about hand-inspecting this rifle prior to purchase because we took away the anxiety of ordering a WASR online. We have "certified" these 7.62x39 carbines to be sold online without concerns for the above reasons.

http://shop.hendersondefense.biz/product.sc?productId=78

I've never had a problem with any of these issues although it seems like everyone on the interweb knows their bother's roommate's cousin's probation officer's mother-in-law who had an Ak (or an AR if it was not made by Colt, Noveske or LMT) that had these problems. If you send me $100.00 I Guarantee that there will not be any monsters hiding under your bed. You can feel just as safe, and collect on it just as easily.

Or he could buy a saiga

See option 2.

or arsenal which are essentially new guns based on the modern AK-100 series of rifles that the russian military uses right now.

See option 3.

So his choice is buy the cheapest crap out there based on old possibly worn out parts that are often poorly assembled, or he could spend a few hundred more and get a quality AK that is modern and uses new parts and will have a much better fit and finish.

Ahh yes the "Possibly" I was waiting for that. What is the difference between a hypothetical $400 AK and a $700 AK, the $700 is "Possibly" better. Under these circumstances absolutely buy "the cheapest crap out there," possibly it is just as good or better than the most expensive.

If it is not up to snuff, and honestly what do you think the odds are 10-20%? Then have it brought up to snuff for $300.00, resulting in the same price $700.00 total. Why plunk down the cash on the down stroke if you may never have to? That's for suckers.

All AKs are not created equal, and you often get what you pay for. So why not buy once and cry only once?

"You often get what you pay for" you don't always get it. The worst POS AK I have ever seen first hand was an Arsenal. It misfired and doubled so much the owner couldn't finish the first drill. I'd rather roll the dice on option 1/1a than overpay for a meaningless guarantee an hype. I'm a big boy I can hold back my tears on a loss if know the odds are stacked in my favor.

 

[Fuego]

I would suggest going to local dealers and pawn shops to look at AKMs before buying one sight unseen.

Go to a big gun show. There will be vendors there with a whole table full of them, and if they are not to busy, you can chat with the vendors.

It helps to have somebody with you that knows the AKM platform.

One thing to watch out for is a home-built from parts AKM. They can be excellent, or some doofuss may be unloading a botched up kit build.

There are plenty of good books on the AKM, so you can do your homework before kicking the tires.

The best of the lot in my opinion: The YUGO M70, fixed or folder.
.

 

[Gelgoog]

Ahh yes the "Possibly" I was waiting for that. What is the difference between a hypothetical $400 AK and a $700 AK, the $700 is "Possibly" better. Under these circumstances absolutely buy "the cheapest crap out there," possibly it is just as good or better than the most expensive.

Lets see what makes a $700 rifle from Arsenal better then a WASR
-matching components
-unused components
- AK-100 series
- 90degree gasblock
- chrome lined hammer forged barrel
- Professionally remanufactured to adhere to russian/bulgarian military standards

WASR
-used or inferior grade components (parts bin gun)
- non matching components
- AKM pattern (out dated)
- checkered barrels remounted from other rifles (often poorly)
- poorly converted from century
- free cosmoline and dirt included

If it is not up to snuff, and honestly what do you think the odds are 10-20%? Then have it brought up to snuff for $300.00, resulting in the same price $700.00 total. Why plunk down the cash on the down stroke if you may never have to? That's for suckers.

wait your suggesting investing another $300 in a used parts bin gun just to get it "up to snuff"? Why pay for a used out dated gun in the first place?

New AK-100 series vs used mismatched parts bin AKM....hmmmm

WASR = /= AK-100

Romanian AK quality = / = Russian/bulgarian quality

As much as I will agree with you that in general a WASR will function, they are not built to the same quality as russian or bulgarian guns, they are not modern AKs and they are built on old mispatched parts. The finished product would never be accepted by any of the major militaries whom these rifles were originally made for.

WASR were a good buy when they were $150-250. At $400 they just are not worth it anymore, your better off buying a new product.

 

[Babarsac]

On JG's website they indicate that the WASR's are assembled by CAI.

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...62x39-caliber-/cPath/209_214/products_id/3448

 

[Works2Shoot]

CAI 74 are now the best bang for the buck. They should be good to go. Make sure you do a good cleaning and shoot at least 200 rds . If theres problems like mag wobble, jams and all sorts of kinks, then call CAI, THey are good on returns. THey even have UPS pick it up at no charge.

The first service they do not pay for ups from your home. They pay return shipping however.

They have incredible customer service. I had one issue and they fixed it, the second issue was a poorly threaded barrel. They paid for return shipping and replaced my rifle with a hand picked unit.

They even called me and asked me how it shot.

 

[Globeguy]

I have an Interarms Tantal I'm thinking about selling. It has the left side lever (non functional of course, it works the safety). It has a folding stock. I also have 1 warsaw fixed stock and 1 us fixed stock for it. And two different pistol grips. And 5 mags for it.

Would you be interested? My apologies if this kind of post is not appropriate in this particular forum.

It has a mojo peep sight installed also.

 

[LKB3rd]

Don't discount just finding a great AK in a gunshop if you shop around. During the height of the Obama madness I bought a Norinco folder for 400.00 in mint condition. Trigger is better than most good AR's and it is a top quality AK.

I'd be thinking local too. You can look and make sure yourself that it isn't "junk." If you know someone who could come with you who has some familiarity with how they work it would help.
Buying online its a dice roll for what you end up with, unless you spend more.

 

[Gelgoog]

Another reason not to buy a century product is that they have a horrible warranty. Its good for one year, and it starts when the product leave the factory, not when you take original ownership. So if it sits in a gunshop for 8 months after arriving from the factory then you have a 4 month warranty. If they replace your rifle with a new one while its under warranty and your replacement rifle has problems then your SOL because they will not work on replacement weapons.

 

[mcdonl]

Most people who want an AK do not want the neutered version

Most people who buy Saiga's arent neutered and do the conversion themself