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Buying first AR- Get the M-4 type or the M-16 type?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by .455_Hunter, Aug 15, 2007.

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  1. .455_Hunter

    .455_Hunter Member

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    Greetings,

    I have decided to buy an AR-15 type weapon for plinking, target shooting, casual varmit hunting and other possible "emergency operations". This will suppliment my underfolder Yugo AK clone. Since I am a lefty, I am looking at Stag's M-4 Carbine style or their M-16A2 style weapons. I understand the M-4 style is more compact, but the M-16 style just shoulders and points better for me.

    What would you recommned? I have experience with both styles (right-handed of course) from the Army, but I would like some outside opinions.

    Thanks,

    Hunter
     
  2. GunTech

    GunTech Member

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    Unless you need a compact weapon, I vote for the 20 inch bbl of the rifle. You get more velocity, and I've never liked the collapsible stock of the M4. You can also typically get an AR-15 rifle a little cheaper than the M4.

    I suggest a flat top, since you may want to mount a scope. Rail system is optional unless you need 'tacti-cool'. Get a free folat handguard, and don;t attach a sling to the barrel.
     
  3. Acera

    Acera Member

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    I would almost always go with what fits you and feels most comfortable.
     
  4. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical Member

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    Carbines are more versatile.

    You could get a 16" barrel and an A2 stock, if you prefer the fixed A2 stock over the 6 position stock...
     
  5. Ford

    Ford Member

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    yeah If you already know you like the 4L better go for it.
    I just bought a 2TL myself. ;)
     
  6. 10-Ring

    10-Ring Member

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    Me, I like the shorties, but if the longer versions work better for ya, get that! :cool:
     
  7. Dusey

    Dusey Member

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    Armalite m15a4. 16" chrome lined barell; removable carry handle; mid-length gas system; collapsable stock; picatinny quad rail forend; Lifetime warranty-what more could one ask for?:)
    [​IMG]
    I know it may look like I'm fat in this picture, but it is just my tactical organic insulation suit:eek:
     
  8. Average Joe

    Average Joe Member

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    M4 type. I have been thinking of getting one myself.
     
  9. Limeyfellow

    Limeyfellow Member

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    I still perfer the feel of the a2 type. It just fits me better, the sight radius feels better for my eyesight and find it comfortable. You may even want to look at an a1 too. Go to a store and shoulder them both to see what works best. If you can try and rent both from a gunrange to test or if you have any friends test theirs.
     
  10. Bazooka Joe71

    Bazooka Joe71 Member

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  11. erict

    erict Member

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    16" vs. 20" - not enough difference (IMO anyway) to haggle over, go with what feels best.

    A2 stock vs. collapseable - again, go with what feels best.

    A2 vs. flat top upper - definetely go flat top.

    You will always have the option for better optic choices that way. If you still prefer the A2 sights, throw a detachable handle on it.
     
  12. SpeedAKL

    SpeedAKL Member

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    Depends on what you want to do with it. For maximum accuracy, or if you're going out hunting, the 20-inch wins hands down. The carbine is lighter, more compact, and has far more customization options available if you wanna
    "tac" it out. OTOH, a 20-in barrel has more "match"-style options available.

    Much of it comes down to feel, though; ask yourself which feels better in firing position. I personally preferred the balance of the shorter-barreled gun.
     
  13. GunTech

    GunTech Member

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    Depending on the load, dropping from 20 inches to 16 can cost you almost 200fps, or about 6% velocity loss.

    Putting a 16 inch barrel on an AR is a great solution if you feel the 223 just has 'too much power'.
     
  14. brentn

    brentn Member

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    Its amazing cause I was going to post this exact same question today. I am juggling the carbine over the full length..

    Originally i wanted the full length rifle becuase it was a replica of whats issued (just in semi auto of course ;)) it has better velocity, and its very very reliable.
    Then I started looking at the carbine and was thinking about how awesome it looks...

    I've just decided to get both eventually, Going to go all out traditional here and get the M15A2 by armalite, so far I have seen NO complaints on this brand. They seem very very sturdy, have good customer service and provide quite a bit of technical information on thier site, which suggest to me that they sure as hell know what they are doing.
    I defenitly want the integrated carry handle instead of the flat top cause thats the way the rifle was issued originally. They make some very nice A.R.M.S. mounts for the integrated carry handle that provide no loss of zero. Scope mounting would look interesting, but would work just fine. I figure that and an ARMS bipod mount for the plastic handguard and a bipod and this will be one real nice shooter, while keeping everything traditional.

    Going to finally pay for it friday, i've been waiting a friggen couple months to do this, and now its going to happen. One thing I can't wait to do is detail strip it and understand EVERYTHING about it, I love that, figuring crap out. I wouldn't mind doing a video review for it on youtube, cause there are none for armalite, just not to sure what areas would be best to cover for a review.
     
  15. The Deer Hunter

    The Deer Hunter Member

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    Everyone is about the 16" M4geries these days. Everyone says they are more versatile, but how so? The gun alone is very versatile as is, so you could always just change uppers at a later time.

    Maybe the 4" less are good for room clearing but most people don't do that. From what I recall, that extra 4" give you quite a difference in velocity so whats the real big difference if you plan on actually shooting it not just bolting on junk and executing tacticool missions for chairborne operations?

    I'm not saying that you shouldn't get a 16", but a 20" can do just as much as the 16".

    I'm sure 70% of 16" M4geries are sold based on that.
     
  16. SecuritySixShooter

    SecuritySixShooter Member

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    Get what fits you best and is most comfortable. For "emergency operations" you always have an AK. Personally I went with the M4 but I dont have supplements (yet).
     
  17. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical Member

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    Let me ask you, how are they NOT more versatile?

    Now, I just assume that when someone asks about which type of AR to get that they are wanting it for self defense (maybe that's because I see the number one usage for my AR15's as for self defense).

    With that thinking in mind, what is the most likely scenario where you would need an AR15 for self defense? You home, maybe even your property in general (your yard).

    It's highly unlikely that you will be in any engagements past 20 yards (which is well within the frag range of an M4 style carbine). So, what is the advantage specifically? Well, you can manuever if your home (As well as other CQ) much better with a carbine. How many entry teams go into buildings with 20" AR15's? Not many at all, in fact, SBR style carbines are far more common.

    Not to mention, a 16" carbine can still reach out and touch someone. My brothers and I hunt coyotes with our carbines quite often, they are plenty accurate even in the shorter barrels.

    Not to mention, they are lighter, point faster, etc...

    The advantages of the 20" only give a slight advantage and that advantage is only realized at longer ranges which are far less likely to need a rifle for.

    I have one 14.5" (w/ permenant Phantom attached), two 16's, and one 20". I love them all, but the carbines get much more use and are far more practical for the majority of situations I may face... M4's are gaining more and more popularity in the military, and they fight at a variety of ranges... but still, most engagements are at ranges under 100 yards.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. brentn

    brentn Member

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    I'm not buying it for home defence, I have a shotgun for that. Not everyone is buying them for defence, if they were then you have some defenite merit.

    For me its about taste (just what I like instead of deciding on what everyone else likes) and collection. I want "thee" service rifle, simple as that. I want to show a friend or family member that this is what the troops are using. Not that they aren't using M4's, but the full length has been around since the begining. Granted its semi auto, everything else is identicaly except for the selct fire switch.

    Thats what made me decide.
    I'm going to build a carbine after, really want something with a 10.5" barrel that will be 'tech'd out. Thats what I'll use for home defence, but for now the M15A2 will be for collector value and target shooting, and my shotgun will be just fine for home defence.
     
  19. igpoobah

    igpoobah Member

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    Get one of each!
     
  20. highfive

    highfive Member

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    I don't have one yet but even the army is trying to change all to M-4, more versatile. I love the M-4 over the M-16. But I'll say go with whatever makes YOU feel right
     
  21. GunTech

    GunTech Member

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    Colt makes the M4, FN makes the M16. Guess who's pushing hard for the Army to adopt more M4s. The shorter barrel reduces the range at which the M193 and M885 fragment (about 2700 fps). Past that range, the 223 loses a lot of lethality.
     
  22. plexreticle

    plexreticle Member

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    I don't like the colt style collapsible stock. Try before you buy if you can.
     
  23. rkh

    rkh member

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    This may be an unpopular view, but if you're going to get an AR--do it right the first time! Cure yourself of BRD before you contract it.

    I'd sugget you shop around for an LWRC or grey market HK-416 upper. Both are expensive, but the LW isn't much moreso than other top of the line ARs.

    Although I've owned and loved DI AR rifles, I find that shooting piston-driven models is a much more enjoyable experience given their simplified cleaning routines.
     
  24. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    Split the difference.
    Get an M4 type carbine lower and attach a Government profile 20" upper.
    I recently built one of this type for myself and it is rapidly becoming my favorite AR.
     
  25. brentn

    brentn Member

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    I would never buy an HK416 upper, nor a piston conversion kit, defeats the whole point of owning a eugene stoner rifle.

    Armalite has a great article on this here.

    Just a little snippet
    The Stoner system allows a very symmetric design that allows straight line movement of the operating components. This allows recoil forces to drive straight to the rear. Instead of connecting or other mechanical parts driving the system, high pressure gas performs this function, reducing the weight of moving parts.

    In Piston systems, the path of the operating force is mechanically shifted around the action, resulting in a considerable mass of moving parts moving outside the centerline of the firearm.


    The only difference that I can see in the 416 outfit is the piston driven bolt, the barrel and some other minor improvements such as a widened magazine well etc
     
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