Buying Multiple Firearms: Potential ATF Trouble?

[Kind of Blued]

I've heard from a few people here that buying more than one gun at the same time can perk a few ears up at the ATF. I don't know how common a response is, but I was wondering if anyone has had any experience. I've also heard using the same FFL over and over again can cause some harassment (if you want to call it that).

I assume it isn't a huge issue, but I am curious. I've been saving some money, and just got my tax return, and DANG, this weekend is going to be fun! I am looking at buying two ARs, although they will most likely be from two different dealers. Not sure if that makes things different.

I'm also curious to know if the ATF can see what type of gun you are buying, not that I mind, seeing that seldom does someone buy two EBRs within a couple days or so.

Thanks!

 

[Soybomb]

There is only notification on multiple handgun purchases. Besides, its legal, who cares.

 

[BullsEye10x]

I've bought several new guns within the last few months, and let's just say they weren't single shot .22's... Never had any problems. My dealer informed me that he had to send additional paperwork to BATF for multiple handgun transfers, but I did not have to fill out or sign anything except the usual form 4473. Whatever that extra stuff was, I'm not too worried about it.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Ok. So they're none the wiser about multiple long guns anyway...

Do you guys put your SS# on the form? What are the advantages/disadvantages?

 

[Hokkmike]

I don't see any problems here. ATF has never bothered anyone I know of despite many gun purchases in a short periods of time. Using the same FFL? Why not do where go you get the best service and deals?

 

[highorder]

I use my SS# on 4473's because it makes the NICS go smoother. Anyone that is going to get it off that form for evil use can find is somewhere else easier.


also, there is an additional form (in triplicate) for more purchasing more than 3 handguns at the same time. The number of the form escapes me...

 

[K3]

I use my SS# on 4473's because it makes the NICS go smoother. Anyone that is going to get it off that form for evil use can find is somewhere else easier.

Me too. The one time I didn't, there was a delay. Seems there is probably someone with the same name that can't buy.

 

[Soybomb]

I don't put my ssn on 4473's. The dealer has to keep them while he is in business or for 20 years, or sends them to the atf if he closes. If nothing else it just seems like an invitation to identity theft problems to leave your ssn laying around in more places than you need to.

If you care to look at the form here it is http://www.forms.gov/bgfPortal/port...pGb2Gc1j6fznnhnnnRh1CnvW!672249290?docId=1169

 

[Treo]

If you buy your ARs FTF there's no record of the sale period.

 

[bensdad]

Last time I bought guns I got two (Henry .22 levers for my son and I). While we waited, a guy next to me said he got a visit from the ATFE after he bought 108 shotguns at one time. He said it was for a company award thing, where all the employees who met a goal of some sort got a prize.

It may have all been bologne. This was at a gunstore, afterall.

 

[Vaarok]

I've gotten as many as a dozen purchases in a week (two separate buys) with no problems.

 

[NetJunkie]

If you buy multiple (2 or more) handguns within 5 business days from the same dealer they send a form to the ATF and the local LE. It's just a notice and only if you buy 2 from the same dealer.

 

[Jim K]

I have at times bought 2 handguns at the same time from the same dealer and never heard from BATFE. Actually, the law says 2 or more within 5 business days triggers the reporting.

Such sales are legal as far as federal law goes, but I suspect BATFE keeps track of dealers who have many multiple sales. The guy buying 108 shotguns was brought to their attention either by a routine compliance check, or by the dealer. Or maybe by some anti-gun fanatic in the company itself.

Jim

 

[sonyhoppes]

Can an FFL holder do a private FTF sale and NOT have to do the 4473? Does he have to be selling a personally owned firearm like a "normal" FTF sale? Does it have to be outside the business? I was wondering what would prevent an FFL holder at a gun show from doing a FTF sale like anyone else walking around with firearms to sell. Seems like he could because he does personally own all the firearms since he bought them himself. I wonder if he has to have had them for a certain period of time, too. It's strange that if this weren't legal, I could buy the exact same NIB firearm from a "normal joe" in many states without any paperwork whatsoever.

Believe me, I'm not trying to circumvent any laws or anything, but it seems like it would be legal for an FFL holder to do a FTF sale, even if it has to be "outside" the business. It doesn't seem like he should have to do a 4473 for any firearms he owns in a FTF sale just like the rest of us don't have to, unless the state requires some sort of paperwork for private sales. I know CT does. Who knows, maybe FFLs have to log in the firearms they buy with intent to sell through their business or something and that's what could prevent a FTF of those logged-in firearms. I know nothing about how the FFL process works.

 

[Gator]

(E8) May a licensee who has firearms in his or her private collection sell any of these firearms without making firearms record entries? [Back]

A licensee may sell a firearm from his or her personal collection, subject only to the restrictions on firearm sales by unlicensed persons, provided the firearm was entered in the licensee’s bound book and then transferred to the licensee’s private collection at least 1 year prior to the sale. When the personal firearm is sold, the sale must be recorded in a "bound book" for dispositions of personal firearms, but no ATF Form 4473 is required.

[27 CFR 478.125a]

It sounds like it would be a lot of work to evade the law, and I think ATF would get wise during a compliance check.

As far as multiple sales go, I've had several and never heard anything. I think they are looking for people buying large numbers of the same guns, instead of two or three different ones.

 

[sonyhoppes]

Well, there ya go! Thanks Gator! I figured they had to log stuff in prior to selling it and/or a time requirement. So, they have to transfer it to their private collection at least one year prior to the sale. No 4473, but it must still be recorded. But, the buyer won't have any paper trail...or...does the FFL have to record to whom he sold the firearm or simply just that it was generically disposed of in a private sale?

 

[Gator]

You're welcome! And yes, the FFL must log it in his bound book as a disposition, just like any other sale, with name, DOB, address, drivers license number, etc. All that would be accomplished would be the elimination of the 4473....which is kept by the dealer along with his bound book.

 

[markmc753]

I have purchased as many as 6 handguns (many of them very evil looking, black guns) in one transaction. So far, no black helicopter, or guys in Chevy Suburbans following me

 

[sonyhoppes]

I see, Gator. Thanks again. So, the BATFE could still trace an FFL "private" sale since they can get access to the FFL's records and the bound book must be turned over to the BATFE when the FFL retires, goes out of business, etc.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

It depends if you buy like 20 WASR's and a TON of ammo and fit a certain "profile" they might come give you a visit.

 

[wally]

I've got three pistols on a single 4473, never heard a thing about it. Same gun, one in 9mm, .40S&W, and .45ACP. CDNN had a sale...

--wally.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Thanks all. Looks like I'll be droppin' that money like a bad habit!

 

[hksw]

If you do it on rare occassion with 2 or 3 or a small number of handguns, shouldn't be a problem. If you're doing it on a regular basis buying 10, 20, etc. guns at a time, expect a visit.

IIRC, the flag was set up to catch non-FFL dealers and (now) potential build-up of criminals/terrorists/smugglers/etc.

 

[jackstinson]

I use my SS# on 4473's because it makes the NICS go smoother.

Yep....I do also for the same reason. My average time for approval is about 5 minutes. My best time was 1.5 minutes from the moment the salesman dialed the phone until the time he came back to me with the approval.
As for multiple purchases? I've bought 2 guns at once several times. It's actually easier since you only have to fill out one form. The seller has to fill out the extra stuff.
The easiest, of course, is face-to-face at a show or privately.
Jack

 

[IllHunter]

Law?

Jim could you please detail "law"

I have at times bought 2 handguns at the same time from the same dealer and never heard from BATFE. Actually, the law says

I sold guns and was trained by the BATFE, when they came to "report multiple handgun purchases" I asked for law chapter and verse and they said (fiercely) It's a request from the bureau. I've tried to find it am unable. My employer was anxious to please as we wanted to keep an e-bound book in a state that supplants the NICS with State Police providing the pre check and 4473 processing.