Buying my first "black rifle".

[JR1988]

So yeah, the title pretty much sums it up. This is going to be the first firearm I purchased on my own (I have several firearms but they were all gifts/inherited).

To be perfectly honest it is wracking my brain. There has been so much to read/consider that the moment I get home from work to the moment I go to bed I have been constantly busy browsing some type of forum or reading a review. In general I am just looking for some type of general feed back from the posters here.

At first I was very interested in the Sig 556. The entire Gas Piston system and having a cleaner rifle among the other things people talk up about it seem pretty cool. In the end however I think I am going to go with a DI rifle. I have heard a lot of talk about more jams/failures in the DI compared to Gas Piston, I must admit talk like that troubles me but I am not letting it worry me to much. The way I see it is that DI is a tried and true system that has been proven for many many years, I cannot really go wrong with that.

All that being said, I am pretty much split between a Colt 6920 or Colt 6940. I have read a few comparison threads comparing the two and got very mixed results. I suppose I am looking for some fresh input from these forums.

So in general anyone have any words of wisdom for me on the two Colts or anything else I said? Go easy on me, I am a complete newbie when it comes to these types of rifles. Trying very hard to catch up with all you gurus however.


I am getting ready for work right now, I will be leaving in a couple of hours and will be away until 11pm eastern. Thanks in advance for any insight everyone can give me and I will respond as soon as I can.

-Justin

 

[briansmithwins]

First off, what are you going to do with this rifle? Why are you buying it? Purpose dictates function.

Secondly, I suspect that you hear about failures in DI AR15s more because there are about 8 million of them in circulation than because their failure rate is any higher than any inherent defect of direct impingement action. No gas piston AR conversion has 0.01% as many units fielded as there ar DI Stoner rifles in use in the world. Nor has any gas piston conversion been in constant use for the past 45 years.

Thirdly, it's nice to have the same rifle as all the other guys in a shoot. Same mags, same spare parts, blah, blah, blah. OTOH, if you're shooter #23 with an AR you're just another guy with another boring AR. Which is part of the reason I shoot AKs at our local rifle matches. OTOOH, if Sig goes out of business, good luck getting parts for your 556. AR parts are always (my lifetime at least) going to be available.

BSW

 

[Isher]

Don't forget the CZ VZ 58.

Superb Czechoslovakian carbine

Lightweight, reliable to the point of using the term "bombproof",

Accurate as all get out.

They are not very well known - I occasionally go to the range (too little)

And generally within minutes I've got several people

Gathered round going *** is THAT?

In my experience, by the time an AK guy runs one 30 round magazine,

(Yeah, I let 'em shoot),

He's done with AK, and asking about CZ suppliers.


FWIW

isher

 

[JR1988]

First off, what are you going to do with this rifle? Why are you buying it? Purpose dictates function.

Oh nothing in particular really, just an all around rifle that could be used to fit the bill for any situation. Shooting at cans,self defense, taking to the range, zombie holocaust, use during a foreign invasion, etc etc etc.

Secondly, I suspect that you hear about failures in DI AR15s more because there are about 8 million of them in circulation than because their failure rate is any higher than any inherent defect of direct impingement action. No gas piston AR conversion has 0.01% as many units fielded as there ar DI Stoner rifles in use in the world. Nor has any gas piston conversion been in constant use for the past 45 years.

I figured that as well. In the future I will probably look into a gas piston rifle. For my first one however I figure I will just go with DI as so many others have done over the years.

Thirdly, it's nice to have the same rifle as all the other guys in a shoot. Same mags, same spare parts, blah, blah, blah. OTOH, if you're shooter #23 with an AR you're just another guy with another boring AR. Which is part of the reason I shoot AKs at our local rifle matches. OTOOH, if Sig goes out of business, good luck getting parts for your 556. AR parts are always (my lifetime at least) going to be available.

I am not really interested in standing out in the crowd or anything like that. Just looking for a dependable rifle that I can become accustomed to. The fact that parts are so wildly available for both the Colts I am interested in appeals to me very much. Mainly trying to decide at this point between the 6920 or the 6940.

Don't forget the CZ VZ 58.

Superb Czechoslovakian carbine

Lightweight, reliable to the point of using the term "bombproof",

Accurate as all get out.

They are not very well known - I occasionally go to the range (too little)

And generally within minutes I've got several people

Gathered round going *** is THAT?

In my experience, by the time an AK guy runs one 30 round magazine,

(Yeah, I let 'em shoot),

He's done with AK, and asking about CZ suppliers.

Thanks for the tip, I am not familiar with that firearm. After I make this purchase and a new handgun purchase I will probably be looking for an AK style rifle. I will read up on the CZ VZ 58 and give it some thought compared to an AK.

 

[briansmithwins]

If you're going with an AR the next choice is 20" or 16" barrel. My rifle is a 16" with mid-length gas system, my wife's is a 20" A1 type. Both have light profile barrels and will old 1.5MOA. Either length works but the 16" makes for a light handy rifle. BSW

 

[armoredman]

VZ rocks.



Holosight pictured is being replaced, forearm is Fab/Mako with folding foregrip. Great rifle - not for everyone, mags are a little harder to find than AR, for certain, and more expensive...but I am very fond of it.

 

[Isher]

Good technical comparison of VZ and AK.........


http://50ae.net/VZ-vs-AK/


isher

 

[kwelz]

I really like my 6940. If I had it to do over again I may have purchased a 6920 and DD Omega rail. but I am not sure. It is nice to have something a bit different. My only complaint so far is that the rail is a bit wider than I like. Not a deal breaker by any means however since I use a VFG

 

[cbrgator]

I think the 6940 as an awful lot of rail and would prefer the 6920. Then if you decide you need extra rail space, grab them later. The beauty of the AR is how modular and customizable it is and you can turn it into anything you want.

 

[dullh]

Anything an AR can do, my HK-91 can do better.

AR's are novelty items to me. Sold my last one last November.

 

[Maverick223]

Also look at a AR-180, the "other" [and better] Armalite. They make great guns, generally cost less (depending upon manufacture) and already come with a gas piston. Oh, and they have been that way for 40yrs with a proven service record to boot.

 

[raskolnikov_22]

Anything an AR can do, my HK-91 can do better.

Except lock open on an empty mag...

 

[briansmithwins]

Anything an AR can do, my HK-91 can do better.

Does that include replacing barrels with simple tools that cost less than $100? BSW

 

[Isher]

dullh -

"Anything an AR can do, my HK-91 can do better.

AR's are novelty items to me. Sold my last one last November."

The OP was asking an honest question.

Turning it into a juvenile pissing match is kinda non high road to me.

I like my VZ 58.

I don't rate it above, or below

hk's, ak's, ar's, fal's

Or anything else.

I just plain like it.

And yah I think it is away better weapon,

For me.

To get right down to it

It is the brotherhood/sisterhood of shooters

Which tells the truth of this forum.

Not swaggering bragging rights propelled by buying into

Gun Bling advertising,

Then compounding it by self-aggrandizing advertisement,

Ex post facto.


Just my .02


isher

 

[sarduy]

OTOH, if you're shooter #23 with an AR you're just another guy with another boring AR. Which is part of the reason I shoot AKs at our local rifle matches.

remember that EBR doesn't have to be always Black.

Plus i like to be the shooter #23 with just another AR

 

[RP88]

Anything an AR can do, my HK-91 can do better.

an HK-91 can break my wallet better than a .223/5.56 AR can. I'll give ya that.

 

[fugi]

I vote you look at the VZ-58 if you don't want a girly little 5.56 rifle. they're cheap, reliable, and accurate given good ammo. mags can be found for $10 each. on the 5.56 front if you have the cash, a SIG would be fantastic. much better design than the AR-15, or the AR-180, not the B model with the plastic lower though.

 

[sevin8nin]

The VZ-58s are very neat rifles indeed. Exceptionally light. Well built, sturdy, and reliable. The draw backs I see to them are limited aftermarket, it's rough mounting magnified optics on them, and even though they share a similar look to the AK style rifles, they share no parts with them. Yes mags can be had for cheap, but you're not going to be just finding VZ mags here and there. It is an accurate rifle, but any rifle is only as accurate as the ammo you put through it, and 'affordable' 7.62 ammo is just not accurate stuff.

I pay the same price, or less (these days) for .223 ammo and get way better groups with a .223 rifle.

If you want to be really different, then definitely go with the VZ. But for the same money, or just a little more, you could get a decent AR and mod it up to be whatever you want.
The Sig 556 is a great rifle as well, combining the accuracy of 5.56 with the reliability of a piston driven system. The main drawback I see if that the sig 556 is heavy.

All that being said, the two choices you've listed are both excellent. The 6940 is actually a great bargain, and the 6920 is a very robust rifle. You wouldn't be bad off getting a S&W, rock river arms, LMT or even noveske. If the one piece upper of the 6940 is appealing i'd really take a look at LMT's MRP upper.

As with most purchases, i've found it makes a big difference to get to handle one in person first.

 

[Runningman]

Colt 6920 or Colt 6940.

Of the two the 6920 feels better to me. The rail on the 6940 feels to fat for my tastes. I would recommend you handle both before making a decision.

Also you might want to check out the Colt 6721 these are a little heaver but they seem to shoot 40 - 62 grain bullets with surprising accuracy.

 

[armoredman]

There are far fewer aftermarket parts for the VZ58, that is for certain! Here's the two companies I use.
http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/spare-parts-and-accessories/

http://www.themakogroup.com/

But there is absolutely no argument that if aftermarket is what you want, the VZ58 runs a distant 8th against the AR and AK crowd. The quad rail I put on, (minus the side rails I really didn't need, if you look close), with folding foregrip was $150 over the cost of the rifle, but worth it to me.
For some, who just want something cool to show off, the EBR can be anything fancy, even a CETME. It all depends on what YOU like, and how well the rifle fits you, your needs/wants, and your budget.
As for the ammo thing - I load my own, especially in 7.62x39mm!

 

[JR1988]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, you have been very helpful.

Still holding pretty steady with my choice of a Colt. It sounds like the prefrence between 6920 and 6940 comes down to personal preference of the look and feel. At this point I am just having trouble deciding if I want to buy a 6940 or get a 6920 and put an Omega Rail 7.0 and BUIS on it. A vertical forward grip is first on my shopping list for either rifle.
The main thing I am favoring right now towards them is the availability of parts and no trouble finding answers to questions/concerns. The Sig 556 which was my other main choice pales in comparison in that regard from what I have been reading. Not to mention it appears to be a bit more expensive.

I am also pretty interested in the VZ58. I am pretty sure I will be sticking with one of the Colts for my first purchase, but as I said I was eventually going to be looking for an AK and the VZ is looking to be a strong contender instead.


I came up with a couple of other noobie questions that I could not find the answer to via a forum search.


First off, I noticed the the 6940 and 6920 have a bayonet lug. Is this solely for mounting accessories or do they actually make a bayonet that will fit the rifle? It just occurred to me that I do not think I have ever seen a 6940 with a bayonet on it. A quick google turned up something about a bayonets not being available for the 16.1" due to the length of the barrel or something along those lines. Am I understanding this correctly?

Secondly and this question might seem a bit odd but when doing an FFL transfer to a local gun shop is it standard for the gun shop to open the package and inspect the firearm before you go to pick it up? The reason I ask is because I am some what finicky about the idea of strangers handling the firearm before I get my hands on it. I have never picked up a rifle from a gun shop before so I do not really know what they do when the rifle arrives. I also am not going to be familiar with the rifle at all so I will not really be stripping it and inspecting it in the gun shop so I could not tell if something was wrong. That is something I plan on doing when I get home and will probably have all sorts of noobish questions for these forums when I do so.

Thanks again for all the help, it is much appreciated.