Buying my first handgun - help needed!

[entropy]

Yes, it's fine; You'll be shooting mostly .38's through it anyway, so it shouldn't get worse for a while-probably several years at the rate you plan on shooting it. But it is still a good idea to check the gap and endshake every couple of cleanings.

I found this neat metric to inches conversion website; it's proven handy:


http://www.metric-conversions.org/length/millimeters-to-inches.htm


The default inches conversion is set to fractions, but there is a tab down below the entry field for format; it has decimals.

 

[RadekSkylark]

What actually makes the B/C gap increase?

I'm now checking webpages of local gun shops to see what they offer for gun maintenance. So far I've gathered from internet that I should get:
a) Toothbrush (as I understand for cleaning of the external and internal parts with some kind of solvent);
b) If available Break Free LCP or equivalent - as I understand it is used as solvent to get of dirt and also it lubricates, so if I clean the gun with it once or twice (as much as necessary) I also lubricate it?
c) Hoppes #9 or equivalent - is used as solvent for cleaning the barrel and cylinder (thus the parts where rounds go in, thus where gun powder could get);
d) Some kind of oil for lubricating the barrel after cleaning (or does the same Brake Free or Hoppes #9 lubricates as well)?
e) A copper brush kit with a rod that also can be used for holding clean patches and possibly a bore snake? Or bore snake isn't really necessary? Also, does the patches have to be a special gun cleaning product or are there any home cleaning type of substitutes to them (something you could get in home depot or similar shops which have stuff for home cleaning)?
f) Microfiber cloth for cleaning of the gun exterior or interior after brushing it with solvent;
g) Q-tips for getting with solvent in tight spaces.

Is there anything else I should get? Do I really need bore snake or can I get by only with copper brush + clean patches (or with bore snake vice versa)?

Also wanted to ask - are the headphones for shooting at range really different than the usual ones used in construction (not talking about some super expensive ones with a lot of features but rather about some basic that fulfill the main purpose)? The same goes for safety glasses - are they actually any different than usual ones that are sold for construction purposes?

Thanks

P.S. Entropy - PM!

 

[susieqz]

i've never used a bore snake, just brass or plastic cleaning rods.
i shoot lots n my guns are fine.
for cleaning, i do use gun cleaners like hoppes n kroil, sometimes break free but i'm finding that automatic transmission fluid works just as good.
just find the proper cleaning kit.
you will also need old cotton tee shirts or sheets to cut up for patches.
there is no need to spend lots. you just need to clean when needed.
many clean after every range trip. i clean less often. centerfire, every 200-300 rounds.
you don't need to spend lots of money, but you must spend the time. you certainly can't clean too much.

 

[bannockburn]

RadekSkylark

Everything you have listed should work just fine. I like to spray my guns down with WD40 after I use them, mainly to get the dirt and powder residue off them right away and if it's going to be a little while until I can take them apart and give them a proper cleaning. I use Hoppes No. 9 for cleaning then lightly apply some RemOil (I prefer the spray bottle), and wrap them up in a silicone rag (usually one made by Birchwood Casey), and then store it in some sort of handgun case or rug.

 

[RadekSkylark]

RadekSkylark

Everything you have listed should work just fine. I like to spray my guns down with WD40 after I use them, mainly to get the dirt and powder residue off them right away and if it's going to be a little while until I can take them apart and give them a proper cleaning. I use Hoppes No. 9 for cleaning then lightly apply some RemOil (I prefer the spray bottle), and wrap them up in a silicone rag (usually one made by Birchwood Casey), and then store it in some sort of handgun case or rug.

What do you think about the condition of the gun (check video on the previous page)?

 

[bannockburn]

RadekSkylark

Looks pretty good to me from viewing your video on it. Needs a good cleaning but everything else seems to be in decent shape. You can get some Flitz (German made metal/fiberglass polish), if you want to clean up some of the marks on the stainless steel or try some Mother's Mag Polish (American made product for shining/polishing up stainless steel), for a truly "shiny" finish. Other than that the gun checks out okay with it's mechanical operation. Now it's time to get yourself and the gun to a nearby range and get a shooting!

And yes, I really liked that Model 686 Security Special you had a couple of photos of. A might big for concealment (always been a fan of the S&W J frames, like your Model 640), but still a super nice .357 revolver to have.

This is my Mother's Mag Polish treatment of my stainless Model 649.



Here's a photo of me with an old Uncle Mike's horizontal shoulder holster carrying my 4" Model 686 in the winter time. Comfortable but something I would wear under a jacket or a hooded sweatshirt and an insulated vest.

 

[RadekSkylark]

Hallo guys.

Today I went on to buy my first pack of ammo. Bought 50 rounds of Sellier & Bellot .38 Special and 6 rounds of Sellier & Bellot .357 Magnum (3 for ballistics shots at police and 3 for myself for my first range training so I could compare the recoil to the .38 Special). Saleswoman told me that they have stock coming in from Sellier & Bellot every week. Here are the pictures of the rounds I got:

.38 Special on the left and .357 Magnum on the right:
https://s32.postimg.org/iwwxa9nh1/20160627_222303.jpg

What type of FMJ bullets are these - truncated cone bullets of cruciform flat nose?

Also bough a little pistol/revolver brush/rod kit:

https://s32.postimg.org/afxezcis5/20160627_222737.jpg

Sorry for the bad image quality. I'm not sure of what metal that middle brush is made of (it is non magnetic)...? Now I'm unsure of what cleaner/lubricant/preserver I should get. It seems that one of the local shops has Hoppes #9. Can someone please explain for what parts of the gun I need what type of cleaner? Or should I find a way to order Break free CLP online and as I understand it would cover everything, from scrubbing bore to lubricating internals and so on?

Checked out what else Sellier & Bellot offers and found some nice wadcutters (http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/en/pro...-and-revolver-cartridges/products/detail/273/). Will try to call that shop tomorrow and see if I can get them to order some of those wadcutters for me (I would pay in advance if needed) - they seem to be the best non expanding bullet for me (also I don't see any reason from Law perspective why I wouldn't be allowed to use them - will confirm this tomorrow at police department).
Checked their data and did some ballistics calculations - they're really nice. The permanent wound cavity mass for the attacker would be the same as for 9x19 FMJ-RN (115gr, V0=346m/s), but this round wouldn't even penetrate second person in summer (with light T shirt on) compared to every other FMJ-RN I checked (even .380ACP and 9x18 would penetrate the second person in this case). The best part is that second person would have permanent wound cavity mass of only 34% of the attackers cavity mass which is considerably less than for other FMJ-RN (again, even for .380ACP and 9x18). Damage to second person compared to the attacker would again be really low - only 34% of the permanent wound cavity mass (the second best is for FMJ-RN 9x18 and .380ACP with 45%).
I really hope that they'll be able to get me those rounds - they seem really nice. The question of course is - what is the price? Anyhow - what are the differences in live fire training between rounds like the ones in the picture above compared to wadcutters? Even if they'll be more expensive if there is not thaat much difference I could practice with those FMJ truncated cone rounds, but carry wadcutters (or possibly mix them in training like 80/20 or something).

P.S. Tomorrow I'll go to police to register my handgun and I should receive my CCW permit/licence (hope I'll get it instead of just a permit for home defense use).

Thanks

 

[entropy]

I'm guessing you won't be able to carry the wadcutters, as they are not jacketed at all. If the FMJ and WC are around the same price, you might as well practice with what you'll be carrying. As for differences in firing, the WC are very light recoil, as they are designed strictly as target rounds. Again, you might as well practice with your carry round.

Not sure what a cruciform flat pointed bullet is-those look like TC to me, though.

The middle brush in your kit looks like it is phosphor bronze-it is a common material used for cleaning brushes. Could be brass. Hoppe's #9 is an excellent gun cleaning solvent, get some of it. If you can find BreakFree CLP over there, it is good to have, too. If not, 3-in-1 oil is good, automatic transmission fluid works, I'm not a fan of WD-40; I've had to clean it's gummy residue from lots of guns that jammed from using it. (Not me using it-I am a gunsmith.)

 

[RadekSkylark]

I'm guessing you won't be able to carry the wadcutters, as they are not jacketed at all. If the FMJ and WC are around the same price, you might as well practice with what you'll be carrying. As for differences in firing, the WC are very light recoil, as they are designed strictly as target rounds. Again, you might as well practice with your carry round.

Not sure what a cruciform flat pointed bullet is-those look like TC to me, though.

The middle brush in your kit looks like it is phosphor bronze-it is a common material used for cleaning brushes. Could be brass. Hoppe's #9 is an excellent gun cleaning solvent, get some of it. If you can find BreakFree CLP over there, it is good to have, too. If not, 3-in-1 oil is good, automatic transmission fluid works, I'm not a fan of WD-40; I've had to clean it's gummy residue from lots of guns that jammed from using it. (Not me using it-I am a gunsmith.)

Law states that one cannot use expanding rounds or round that have an offset center of gravity to the axis of the round (I'm not sure this translation is correct). Anyhow wadcutter don't seem to go in any of those two categories, so I'm pretty sure I should be able to use them.

If both truncated cones and wadcutters will be the same price I will definitely train with what I carry (hope it'll be wadcutters), but if wadcutters will be more expensive I could train with truncated cones 80/20 combined with wadcutters (or similarly). As I understand if I would be able to shoot ok with truncated cones bullets I should be able to do at least as good with wadcutters that have a lighter recoil?

 

[entropy]

I don't know what Latvia's definitions are but I do know that according to the Hague Accords, .38 Spl wadcutters would be considered expanding ammunition, due to their not being plated or jacketed. Hornady does make a plated 148 gr. WC for .38 Spl., but as far as I know, only as bullets for reloading, not in loaded ammunition. If you can use 148 gr. non-jacketed wadcutters, you should be able to use 158 gr. LSWC (Lead Semi-Wadcutters), right?
That loaded to 3.8 Spl. +P levels would be a potent carry load. But I'm guessing they will tell you FMJ only.

 

[MedWheeler]

Out of a snub, shooting 148-grain wadcutters and 130-grain FMJ-T/N, I can't tell the difference, either in feel, or in shot placement. The latter load is not a +P load.

 

[entropy]

Med Wheeler; Read the ballistics of the rounds on the S&B link he provided:

http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/en/pro...-and-revolver-cartridges/products/detail/273/

Then convert them to fps & ft/lbs. The S&B 130 FMJ has a bit more to it than WWB 130 FMJ.

http://www.winchester.com/Products/...ue/Full-Metal-Jacket-handgun/Pages/Q4171.aspx

S&B: 889 fps at muzzle (271 m/sec)/ 277.3 ft lbs (376 Joules) at muzzle.

WWB 800 fps at muzzle (243.8 m/sec)/ 185 ft. lbs. at muzzle (250.8 Joules)

S&B wadcutters are at 698 fps; Remington as a comparision are 710.

So while not a HUGE difference, it should be noticeable, particularly to a new shooter shooting a snubnose. You have to remember you and I have a lot more rounds of .38 downrange than he does.

 

[Vernon1]

Best Pistol

Glock

 

[MedWheeler]

Vernon1, you're a might late to this party. The OP has made and purchased his selection. He doesn't need someone driving by, shouting "Glock", then peeling out with no further commentary.

 

[RadekSkylark]

Hallo guys.

Yesterday I registered my revolver at police department and got my CCW permit - woohoo

Also police rep told me that I can carry wadcutters so I called up the shop and told them that I want to know if they can deliver those wadcutters and how much would they cost. I'll be waiting for their call.

After a little research I decided to try out the one fits all solution (as I understand that is what US military does), thus using Break free CLP for cleaning, lubrication and preservation. Unfortunatelly Break free CLP was not available at local stores so I turned to another locally popular product - Ballistol Universal Oil (https://s32.postimg.org/v7z49s8lh/20160629_082559.jpg). Label says that it also cleans, lubricates and preserves (CLP), so I hope I'll be able to make it work. Also this 0,5 liter product cost only 26,5$/liter (100$/gallon), so I'm pretty happy with that. Now I only have to buy a toothbrush for my handgun, some Q-tips and some microfiber cloth that I could cut up to use as patches for bore and chamber cleaning.

Can someone tell me the best supplement that can be used as bore cleaning patches (something that can be easily bough at usual home depot type of stores)? Also I'm planing to buy a regular human toothbrush - should I get the hard, the medium or soft - will it be ok for my handgun? Do you think that the Ballistol Universal Oil will work ok for cleaning the barrel and chambers?

P.S. Also wanted to ask - could I possibly use my own revolver as a mold for a custom kydex holster DIY job? I see that youtube is full with information and as a Crossbreed Supertuck for me would cost something around 160$ (which is basically half the price of my handgun) I though that I could possibly order kydex sheets instead and try to make myself something similar to Crossbread (should probably order their hooks, but I believe that I should be able to mold the kydex and buy the lather locally to make the holster)?

Thanks

 

[goon]

And do you all really think that I will be ok with a revolver for carry and only 50 round limit per month for live fire training (possibly I could supplement that with shooting an airsoft or BB revolver, although I don't see that being a game changer - I should be able to get good with trigger control, drawing and reloading in dry fire drills) instead of a semi-auto (carrying condition 3) with 100 round limit per month?

Yes, I think you can do fine with 50 rounds a month and some supplemental work. Even just dry fire training with snap caps can make a lot of difference, and you can practice everything exactly the same with revolvers whether you're using live rounds or not. I think even that much will put you ahead of 95% of people who own firearms.

I actually like revolvers. To be honest, I actually don't shoot nearly as much .357. The bulk of my practice is with .38 Special reloads using either a 148 grain wadcutter or a 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter at a fairly modest velocity. My own wadcutter reloads are pretty close to the S&B ammo you mentioned. When I was getting acquainted with revolvers I shot A WHOLE LOT of them.

Light wadcutter loads are great for practice, but they are more difficult to reload the gun with quickly because they don't have a cone or round nose shape to help guide the rounds into the chambers. They're also not usually loaded as powerful as standard .38 Special ammunition. They're fine to start with and for some practice from time to time, but if you cannot carry good JHP or LSWC-HP ammunition, standard lead semi-wadcutters may be the next best thing.

On accessories, I know that Midway does have an international division you may be able to order from. You might also try Amazon - you'd be surprised what turns up there.

Other options to carry extra ammo besides speedloaders include Bianchi Speed Strips, leather dump pouches made to drop two cartridges at a time, cartridge loops, or possibly an SKS stripper clip (they'll hold 10 rounds of .38 Special or .357, but they take a little practice to get the last few rounds off smoothly).

 

[entropy]

Goon is correct about loading wadcutters from a speedloader or speed strip; it is very difficult. The 130 FMJ would be much easier. From reading the ballistics on the S&B ammo, I believe the 130 FMJ would be the best round for your requirements, and the 158 LFN (if considered non-expanding) would be second best. One possible solution would be to load the gun with 148 WC, and carry a speedloader with 130 FMJ in it.

Never thought about Amazon, my wife refuses to use it due to a bad experience. I stay away from it, it's just easier that way.....

Ballistol is good lube, so-so for cleaning, so-so for preservative. My main reason for not using it is the smell; I find it offensive. If you don't, it will work fine. I don't think the bristles on a toothbrush for cleaning matters a lot, but I'd get a stiffer one if there's a choice.

I use old cotton T-Shirts for cleaning, and old cotton flannel shirts make the best patches.

As for using your gun for a Kydex mold, it works. Some wrap the gun in plastic wrap, I don't think it's necessary, particularly with a stainless steel gun.

This company does ship internationally, they have supplies for making Kydex holsters:

http://usaknifemaker.com/accessories/knife-accessories-103/sheaths/sheath-supplies.html?p=2

I've ordered from this company before, they also have everything you 'd need:

http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/shipping.php?osCsid=0mbuk7sfps60gact5sp4nuq3a0

I built this sheath for my tanto with stuff from them:

 

[goon]

One thing with 130 grain FMJ is that it may not shoot to where the sights are regulated. I'd expect it to shoot a little low, but you often don't know those things until after you try them.

 

[RadekSkylark]

Thanks guys for info!

I think if I'll be able to get those wadcutters I'll try them and compare how I do with reloading. If I'll find myself having trouble reloading it as fast as those truncated cone flat nose (the ones I bough now) then I'll definitely carry wadcutters in the cylinder and FMJ-TC in speed loader - good advice there entropy - I like it!

I don't like that Amazon doesn't show the price of shipping. Because of this I haven't ever bought anything from Amazon, as I know that shipping prices can vary significantly - I mean, beyond ridiculous - I wouldn't want to get an unpleasant surprise.

I'll see how Ballistol does for me. If it won't clean good enough I'll buy Hoppes #9 solvent or something similar for cleaning and will use that Ballistol for lubrication and preservation.

Oh, nice, I'll cut up my old T-shirts for patches!

Entropy - what do you mean - plastic wrap? Is that some kind of insulation tape (like the gray one from Macgyver series? ) So you think that I could use my revolver as it is to mold kydex (even the rubber grip)? Thanks for links to suppliers and the sheath you made looks nice.

P.S. Guys can you please confirm - are the safety glasses and earmuffs used for shooting the same as those used in construction?

 

[goon]

Yeah, safety glasses and ear protection used in construction or manufacturing should work fine. There are some more streamlined shooting glasses available, but you can use what you have if you don't want to spend a lot on them.

 

[entropy]

Entropy - what do you mean - plastic wrap?

The stuff you wrap over the top of leftovers before putting them in the refrigerator. It's commonly known as Saran wrap (a brand name) here in the US.

Don't get the Kydex on the grips; it shouldn't hurt them, but the holster material shouldn't be near the grips anyway.

Yes, the earmuffs and safety glasses are essentially the same, usually they vary only in color; gun ones are often camo (or pink camo for the ladies), the construction ones black or gray. Electronic ones are geared more towards shooters and hunters. They are handy to be able to hear range commands yet still block damaging noise levels.

 

[RadekSkylark]

The stuff you wrap over the top of leftovers before putting them in the refrigerator. It's commonly known as Saran wrap (a brand name) here in the US.

Don't get the Kydex on the grips; it shouldn't hurt them, but the holster material shouldn't be near the grips anyway.

Yes, the earmuffs and safety glasses are essentially the same, usually they vary only in color; gun ones are often camo (or pink camo for the ladies), the construction ones black or gray. Electronic ones are geared more towards shooters and hunters. They are handy to be able to hear range commands yet still block damaging noise levels.

Oh, ok, now I get what wraps you're talking about.

Of course I will not try to get kydex on grips, but it is possible that a little bit will get on the grips - that won't hurt them, would it? Anyway I'll find a way to cut the excess off.

Nice, then I'll just find my construction earmuffs and buy some safety glasses.

Thanks

 

[RadekSkylark]

Hallo guys.

Today for first time I cleaned my S&W 640, so wanted to come by and ask for some advice.

I used multi purpose Ballistol for cleaning and lubrication. First of I took of the grips, as there was a lot of dirt around them. Secondly I applied ballistol with a tooth brush all over the gun, so it could start to dissolve dirt a little bit. After that I took the metal brush that came in my brush kit (not sure if it is "bronze" or brass or something else) and run through the barrel from crown to forcing cone. At the end of the first run I realized that my brush is too long and I cannot run it all the way though, also, I noticed that this metal brush needed a lot of force to run through the barrel which seemed a bit odd, although this was first time I ever cleaned a gun, so what do I know, anyhow I was afraid of damaging the barrel so I changed the brush. Second time I used the other (possibly nylon or whatever - photo posted previously in this thread) brush - went through the barrel few times. Then cut up my old cotton T-shirt and used it for patches - went through few times with those. After that I repeated this process for all five chambers using that softer (black nylon or whatever) brush. After that I took a toothbrush and brush all around the gun and at the end wiped off the ballistol with a microfiber cloth. After this I once again used my home setup to test the trigger pull because it seemed lighter - it actually was 15,4lbs (7kg). Not sure why it got lighter, possibly because some ballistol got into the action. Today I didn't take of the cover to clean the gun from inside because I lacked confidence to do it the first time I clean a gun.

Here are few questions:
1) Is it ok that I cannot run the brushes fully though the barrel or should I definitely find a shorter brushes so I can run them fully through the barrel?
2) Is that metal brush ok to use for cleaning (it goes though with quite a push)?
3) Can my toothbrush damage crown or chambers when I use it to brush of all around the gun?
4) Can I use ballistol to clean my rubber grips?
5) Could it be that there was a glue on the perimeter of the grip inner surfaces so that both halves of the grips stick together?

Here are few pictures - what can you say about the barrel - is it ok?














It seems that there are some little scratches inside the barrel (at the crown and at the forcing cone), also it seems that there is a little pitting (one hole) near the crown, I'm not sure though, because I cannot see with my own eyes everything that is in these pictures (taken with my S4 mini mobile phone).

Should I clean the barrel and chambers one more with that metal brush? Can that brush ever damage barrel or chambers?

Thanks

 

[entropy]

Your cleaning kit brushes might be a little long; usually there are two different length brushes, rifle and pistol. The pistol length brushes are about an inch and a half, rifle length ones are usually 2-2.5 inches. The metal brush won't harm your barrel, they are always of softer metal than the gun's steel. Nylon brushes work just fine, also. Sometimes military cleaning rods issued with rifles and pistols are of ordnance steel, and will scratch the steel, and maybe someone usd one on it in the past, but there's nothing to be worried about. The cleaining rod in your kit looked like brass, so no worries there.
Overall, it looks pretty clean. It's hard to tell if that's a pit in the barrel. I suspect that using a solvent like Hoppe's #9 instead of just Ballistol, will get rid of the carbon fouling in the lands and around the back of the barrel.I suspect that when you clean inside the action when you put the spring kit in, the trigger pull will be much lighter and smoother, both from cleaning it out and the spring kit.

 

[TfflHndn]

Definitely get a shorter pistol-length brush. In the meantime, make sure you don't just pull the longer brush back out the barrel without spinning it while you reverse direction. Otherwise you will weaken or break bristles, and you take the chance that you'll embed a bristle tip or two in the barrel if there's any pores or corners that will catch a bristle. If you turn the brush while reversing direction that shouldn't happen.

Your toothbrush will never harm the metal, it's just too soft to do so. I would not use any solvent or cleaning chemicals on the grips. While they should be made to withstand occasional contact with cleaning liquids, you're best off just cleaning them with mild soap and water if needed.