C&R CLEO form problem

[Flyboy73]

Due to my surplus collection growing, I decided to get my C&R. SO i got the forms filled them out and was wondering where I give the Chief law enfor. Officer form to. I was going to my county Sheriff dept. anyways to register my 1895 nagant, so I though I would call and ask them before I went there. They told me sure bring it in.

Well, after they heck of a time to register my Nagant, no clue on what is, had computer problems, ended up call the state police, they got it down. I then gave them the form and she looked confused. Asked the other clerk, and they had a big discussion and decided it needed to go the Chief of the local police dept. Well, I called the local township police dept. and talked to the deputy and said sure we will take it. He told me the chief was out on patrol and wanted to know if I wanted him to stop by my house, well I was at work anyways and not crazy about having the cops stop by. (my mother in law lives next door, so I would be getting a phone call in 2 seconds asking what was up).

I was going to the township office the next day to pay my property taxes anyways, so would drop it off then.

He wasn't in but left it in his box. I then mailed the forms off to the ATF.

Well, today got an envelope from the police dept., in it was the form and a sticky note, saying this does not go to us. :banghead:

Now I am getting a little ticked. Just who the heck does the form go to?

No one seems to want to take it

Brion

 

[Don Gwinn]

I don't recall a CLEO "form." All the forms, to my knowledge, go together to BATF. This is not like a signoff for an NFA weapon; the CLEO doesn't have to give his blessing or even respond. You simply send him/her a letter stating that you intend to get the CRFFL license and "no action on your part is necessary."

You might want to try www.cruffler.com or the Parallax forums (google "parallax milsurp" and it should come right up.) Lots of advice on the process there.

 

[Technosavant]

You are supposed to mail a copy of the application to your CLEO. He/She doesn't actually have to do anything at all with it (even keep it; rumor has it that "the round file" is where they keep these things), but you do have to send it. You do not need their permission (as you would for NFA items), they are just informed. My guess is that this is so they can tell the BATFE if you are some kind of criminal/nutjob/other, but in practice, it is a waste of 2 pieces of paper, an envelope, and a stamp.

 

[Flyboy73]

There was two copies of the form, One for the ATF and for the CLEO. In the instructions it says to fill out both, send one to the ATF and the other one to the CLEO. On the CLEO copy its got a note saying this requires no action on your part, unless there is a reason to disualify the person.

MY problem is no one wants to be the CLEO for my area and take the form. I am just trying to follow the directions so i donlt have a problem with the ATF.

Brion

 

[Greg L]

Where do you live that you have to register a pre1898 firearm?

Anyway, generally, if you live within city limits it goes to the Chief of police, outside of city limits it goes to the county sheriff.

 

[WayneConrad]

It's the chief of whichever department that would come to your door if you dialed 911. I asked when I ordered the forms over the phone and that's what the BATFE person told me.

How about mailing it registered mail? Once you've got the signiture that says it got there, I wouldn't worry if they didn't know what to do with it and sent it back to you. You did your part.

 

[goalie]

MY problem is no one wants to be the CLEO for my area and take the form.

They don't have to "want" to. Just mail it and it's done. As another poster said, just pick the agency that would respond if you dialed 911 and mail it to them.

 

[Rumpled]

Sounds to me like you are OK. You gave it to the office of your CLEO, they decided they didn't want it. You've done all you need to do.

 

[WayneConrad]

I just thought of this. When I sent my CLEO copy, I included a cover letter similar to this one from cruffler.com:

Dear Chief Localpolice:

Enclosed please find, as per federal regulation, a copy of my ATF Form 7CR. You are not required to take any action with respect to the enclosed form. If I can be of any service, or if there are any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me at the address above. With kindest regards, I remain

Very truly yours,

I don't think I needed it (a big department in Arizona is surely familiar with them), but perhaps it would help your CLEO.

 

[Eskimo Jim]

Flyboy73,
Here's what I'd suggest so that you would comply with the BATF regulations:

1) send the CLEO form to the township police department via return receipt throught the post office. The PD will have to sign for the envelope and the signed receipt goes back to you. record this receipt with yoru copy of the form that you sent to the CLEO.

2) bring the form down again and ask them ti give you a receipt for it. If they won't do it, then go with option1.

If the CLEO tosses the form, at least you'd have a receipt that you sent it to their office. When dealing with any government agency, I do my best to get a receipt or name of the person that I dealt with. I understand that people can make mistakes, things misplaced etc however usually there are greater consequences involved if you can't show that you acted in good faith with a government agency.

-Jim

 

[Beren]

Eh. Keep the form in the envelope they used to mail it back to you. That's your receipt. You gave it to them. They gave it back. You might try again using the verbiage listed above.

My local PD was similar in their reaction. "Do we need to keep this?" My answer: "Well, I have to give it to you. From there you can do whatever you like, I guess."

 

[BenW]

I became a firm believer in the "what they don't know won't hurt 'em" and "just do what they tell you to do at cruffler.com" methods back when I got mine.

When I filed, I wanted to make sure it went to the correct address, so I called the Sheriff's dept to verify. The woman on the phone started playing twenty questions about "what kind of guns do I have?" and that I needed to come in person to their information desk to speak to a deputy. I just hung up, used the cruffler cover letter, and sent the form "for their information" exactly as per BATF instructions. If the receiving agency doesn't know what the thing means, I figure that's their problem, not mine.

YMMV, but who to send the form to can depend on where you live for political reasons. In many anti-gun locals (like where I live) it's recommended to send the form to the Sheriff and not the Chief of Police, as Sheriff's depts are usually less "anti" -- or at least that's the theory. Don't know the actual legality of doing that as per the "what agency services you" post above.

 

[Flyboy73]

Well as far as who comes to door when i call 911, normally it is the township police, BUT the county sheriff has responed to my address. But more i think about it, i think is the township would be the CLEO.

I think i will mail the form back with a note explaining to cheif, the sheriff dept said to send it you, the ATF says give it to who reponds when you call 911, and no action on your part is neccessary.

In michiagn after you purchuse a handgun you take it the county sheriff dept to register and a safety insecption (ya like the people that i deal with know how to safety the gun). The 1895 is model number and also the year it was first made, like the colt 1911. My nagant was probally made in the 40's.

Brion

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I agree with Beren. You've gone well beyond what's required. You've been to BOTH offices. One of them took it, the other didn't. The one that accepted it sent it back.

Stick it in the file cabinet with your fledgling C&R records and call it good.

 

[c_yeager]

What they do with the form is really not your problem. If they want to send it back to you thats up to them. As long as you sent it out then youve done all you needed to do.

 

[El Rojo]

I don't think the form ever made it to your house. Did they send it registered mail? No? They took it, you never heard anything back from them. End of story.

What is up with the Mosin Nagant registration?

 

[Flyboy73]

Nagant Pistol not a Nagant rifle.

Brion

 

[Flyboy73]

I decieded i am going to spend the form back to the Chief. I want to cover my back and also matter of principle.

I did check the Sheriff dept and they confirmed that he is the CLEO.

Send the form back with a note explaning that he need to take no action and that the Sheriff and the ATF says to give it to him.

Intresteing to see if i get it back again.

Brion

 

[Zundfolge]

Make copies of the form ... send a copy to the Chief of Police and a copy to the Sheriff ... registered mail.

I'd think that would cover you.

 

[Gordon Fink]

I sent mine to the gentleman I get to elect. At least California’s registration requirements aren’t as inconvenient as Michigan’s.

~G. Fink

 

[Flyboy73]

Not sure how other states pistol registrations are. But in Michigan to buy a Handgun you either to get a purchue premit from the sheriff dept or have a CCW. After purchuse you get a form and and within 10 days you need to take the form and gun down to the sheriff dept for regestation and safety insecption (HA HA safety insecption).

Brion

 

[SouthpawShootr]

I've heard a couple of different options. First, a machinegun dealer that I know who is also a LEO told me that the chief of police is not the CLEO. Rather that would be the sheriiff. Another machinegun dealer said go to the Commonweath's Attorney if the CLEO is hostile. A friend of my who is also a police officer once told me that the police department's LE authority proceeds from the sheriff. Of course, this advice was for "who to have sign the forms for a tax stamp" and not for a C&R, but the CLEO is going to be the same regardless. I'm getting the itch to get a C&R don't think I can resist it too much longer. The license is cheap, but I got a feeling it will be the most costly decision I will ever make.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Not C&R, but....

First, a machinegun dealer that I know who is also a LEO told me that the chief of police is not the CLEO. Rather that would be the sheriiff.

The CLEO (in NFA terms) is not limited to a single designated person. It can be any number of LEO types that have jurisdiction over your place of residence. The CLEO can be the local Police Chief, Sheriff, Head of State Police, Local or State DA/Prosecutor and "or such other persons whose certificate may in a particular case be acceptable to the Director." This means the Director of ATF can authorize a person to sign in place of the normal CLEO. In the past, the director has been know to authorize the local US Attorney, local US Marshals, local supervising FBI agents and local federal judges to perform the CLEO signature.

As stated, there is NO CLEO signature required for a C&R license. You send the form to the local law enforcement agency informing them of your license. That is the end of your obligation.

 

[lycanthrope]

I live in a small city, but the Sherriff's office in the court house took mine without problem.

 

[cxm]

Follow the Instructions:

For a C&R License (Type III) you do not need the approval of the CLEO or the police.

To comply with the notificiation requirement, you simply send a copy of the application to the CLEO (usually the Sheriff) or your city police chief. Unless they object to the issuance of the license and so notify the ATF that is the end of your requirement.

Now, most Sheriffs and Chiefs have no earthly idea what a notification is....SOOOOooo... MAKE IT EASY for them to toss it in the trash. To make it easy for the Sheriff to trash I use the attached cover letter:

------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sheriff xxxxx:

Enclosed is a copy of my application to renew my Federal license to collect curio and relic firearms.

Federal regulations require I notify the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in this county of my application for renewal by providing a copy of the application.

No action is required on your part, this notification is informational only.

Best regards and once again thanks for your service to xxxxxx County and the State of Texas.

Sincerely and respectfully

-----------------------------------------------

Now a clerk reads the letter, knows what the application is about and doubtless tosses the letter and the application in the trash... it is that simple.

Chuck