C&R License and city incompetence. *RANT*

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To avoid just this kind of potential problem, when I sent my C&R stuff to the local CEO, I added a covering letter that included the sentence, "As you are aware, this requires no action on your part."- Must have worked or he knew the regs because I didn't hear squat-
 
I am sure it will work out fine. The first time I filed for my FFL 03 I did not even bother to enclose a letter explaining it to the chief. I figured that if I could read the instructions so could he. I expect it got filed in the trash, which is fine by me.

Recently I had to amend my license due to a change of address. Since ATF form 5300.38 is used to amend just about every type of FFL, I enclosed an explanatory letter with the copy intended for the CLEO. Hopefully this form will get filed in the trash also.
 
The local sheriff has known me since Hector was a pup. I just drop stuff off at the desk. If he needs to sign it; I pick it up later.

He personally thinks that signing NFA stuff is a ATF ruse to fix responsibility on him for signing off if someone starts a crime spree with them. He does it, though.
 
If im reading this right and your in Redford then its no wonder livionia is another fine place to try and get them to understand forms
 
He personally thinks that signing NFA stuff is a ATF ruse to fix responsibility on him for signing off if someone starts a crime spree with them. He does it, though.
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You've shown him Searcy vs. Dayton, right? It only applies to the 6th Circuit I assume, but it should be enough to convince any CLEO who is on the fence or otherwise hesitant. My CLEO lets lieutenants sign for him, it's pretty much "shall issue." I just had three Form 4s signed -- they did a background check and signed while I waited.
 
Declaration Day said:
Whew. After 45 minutes of wasted time (and gas) this morning, the problem seems to be solved.

So, do I now file a complaint about this hassle? And to who? The police Chief, the Mayor?

Or should I just "suck it up" and be glad it is done?
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I think you already did too much.

The BATFE requires you to send a copy of the application to the police, correct?

You did that. It's not any of your business what they do with it. If it didn't come back to you, you would have no way of knowing if they filed it under "Miscellaneous," filed it under "Terrorist Watch," threw it in the trash can, or used it for Kleenex. Whatever disposition they chose, you had already done what was required. In your case, they chose to send it to the building department, who sent it to the zoning department, who sent it back to you.

Personally, I would have put it in the back of the gun safe as proof that I had sent it in, and said a heart-felt "Thank you, God" that the police decided they had no interest in my interest in collecting things that go "BANG" over relatively long distances.
 
In the future, if I apply for a C&R, I will attach a copy of the Federal regulation to the copy I send to the police chief, with the appropriate clause circled.:cool:
 
TooTaxed said:
In the future, if I apply for a C&R, I will attach a copy of the Federal regulation to the copy I send to the police chief, with the appropriate clause circled.:cool:
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There is a usefull guide to obtaining a C&R from cruffler.com.

http://www.cruffler.com/becomingcruffler.html

It includes a nifty sample cover letter to include with the CLEOs copy of the application about halfway down the page. The cover letter explains what the application is, and what they are required to do with it (nothing). It makes it easier for the CLEO to distinguish the C&R from a traditional FFL application.
 
Felonious Monk said:
I filed for mine, about a year ago.
Also filed paperwork with my local Sheriff.

3 months later, I get some BS note from a lady in Atlanta that says (it's been a while, I don't recall exactly) it's necessary for me to file some OTHER document and send another amount of money.

I ignored it.
Never got my FFL03.

Last week, I got a check from the fedgov returning my app fee.

Guess I'll start the process over again when I work up the gumption to fight city hall and walk the idiots through the process. :banghead:
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The sheriff had nothing to do with you not getting your license. It was really your fault for ignoring the BATF request. The BS note was likely about the citizenship statement that you should have submitted with your application. The license will not be issued without it.
 
LOL!

Very similar thing happened to me the first time I applied for a C&R. Since the SO was just down the road, I tried to drop off the copy of the app.

I have rarely encountered such a level of stubborn, invincible ignorance. Neither the clerk, nor the Deputy would listen to me when I pointed out the ATF regulation.

Anyway, after encountering these YO-YO's, I worked for the election of a different Sherrif next time (we won) and got rid of the bozo's.

For people going through this process in the future, just MAIL a copy of your application to your chief LEO.
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+100!
 
I think it's natural to be concerned the first time you apply. All the stinking official paperwork and regulations make you want to second guess everything so you don't get in trouble -- especially if you live in an "anti-gun" community.

When I first got mine, I called the Sheriff's Dept to obtain the correct mailing address for their copy of the form. The lady that answered the phone started interrogating me and said I needed to come in and talk to a Deputy. Luckily I had done my research beforehand (Cruffler.com is great!) and simply ignored the lady, sent the Sheriff's copy to the generic address in the phonebook, and was done.
 
The sheriff had nothing to do with you not getting your license. It was really your fault for ignoring the BATF request. The BS note was likely about the citizenship statement that you should have submitted with your application. The license will not be issued without it.
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Agreed. Next time, fill out your citizenship form, sign it, mail to ATF and the Sheriff, and you're done.

My first application took 27 days to license in hand. Last renewal was 3 days.

Welcome to the World of C&R Weapons, Declaration Day!!
 
c_yeager said:
Your obligation ended as soon as the application entered into the possession of your CLEO, what he does with it is his problem (even if that involves sending it back to you because they dont know what they are doing).
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That's what I always thought, too. All your obligation is is to turn it in for their records. After that, they can use it to blow their nose and it's no longer your concern?
 
TooTaxed said:
In the future, if I apply for a C&R, I will attach a copy of the Federal regulation to the copy I send to the police chief, with the appropriate clause circled.
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Totally unnecessary, so why bother?

~G. Fink
 
Gordon Fink said:
Totally unnecessary, so why bother?
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I have a theory that some people are just irresistably, unavoidably, irrationally bound and determined to cause themselves trouble in ways that they think they can whine and cry and moan about later, making themselves victims of some vast conspiracy of incompetence on everyone else's part.
 
Declaration Day said:
SO..............

I'll summarize my thread by saying:

1) I was unaware that the CLEO did not have to KEEP the application copy.

2) I try to be thorough in my dealings and will attempt to follow the laws to the letter, so long as I consider them to be moderately tolerable.

3) The Police chief should have known what a C&R license is. I may not have been fully informed of what I had to do, but he should have known, it is his job.

4) I am not a rude person, and it is not necessary to be rude to me in order to make a point.

Thanks for the opinions and info.
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Sorry, but what makes you think it is his job? It isn't. I'll bet if you obtain a copy of the job description for "Police Chief" or "Sheriff" for any jurisdiction anywhere in the U.S. there won't be any mention of receiving and reviewing copies of BATFE applications for a C&R FFL. Probably also won't mention Class 1 FFLs, either.

Have you ever heard the term "unfunded mandate"? That's when some higher level of government decides some lower level ought'a do something, so they pass a law or promulgate a regulation, but they forget all about providing any staff or funding to carry out whatever said law or regulation calls for.

I'm sure when the BATFE decided that C&R applications should be copied to police chiefs they didn't bother to ask the chiefs. So to the police chief, this is an unfunded mandate. It's another piece of Federal paper that he didn't ask for, doesn't have time to look at, and has no category in his filing system to keep track of. Ergo, the logical place for it is ... the circular file.

So you got your knickers in a twist over an unfunded mandate. C'est la vie.
 
Thanks for your (*eloquently stated*) info, but I still think it is his job. I simply cannot believe that I am the first, or only person in my entire city to apply for an 03 FFL.

I'm not sure what these knicker things are, but I am guessing that it is not good to twist them.
 
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