I was reading my big book of regulations and stuff that I got with my C&R license and noticed that the ATF is supposed to pay a visit to licensee's to make sure that we are complying with laws and regulations. Has anyone had experience with this? Just wondering what sort of procedure they go thru. Thanks!
C&R question: Has anyone had their "educational visit" from the ATF?
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freakshow10mm
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Not with C&Rs.
They won't routinely pay C&R holders a visit. That applies to 01 FFL holders.
I think they can request a visit once every year (or maybe its two, I don't remember). You will be given the option of them coming to you, or you taking your C&R guns and bound book to them.
I have never heard of a C&R holder who got visited though.
I think they can request a visit once every year (or maybe its two, I don't remember). You will be given the option of them coming to you, or you taking your C&R guns and bound book to them.
I have never heard of a C&R holder who got visited though.
eatont9999
Member
I think they tend to do FFL 01s on a regional basis. They will audit an area/county every so often. At least that is what I have seen.
I've heard of this only once, and it was via an internet forum (which one I can't remember). The ATF called the 03FFL holder and told him what was up. The ATF lady on the phone even told the guy it was more of a training exercise for them than a real intense inspection. He said he scheduled an appointment and it lasted about an hour.
Other than reading it once on a gun forum (which one I can't remember), I don't think they inspect C&Rs too often. Probably only if you give them a reason to be interested in you.
I found a whole thread dedicated to it on calguns here linky
Other than reading it once on a gun forum (which one I can't remember), I don't think they inspect C&Rs too often. Probably only if you give them a reason to be interested in you.
I found a whole thread dedicated to it on calguns here linky
Steve in PA
Member
On my second renewal. Never had a visit. Never been contacted.
Neo-Luddite
Member
Ditto what Steve said. If they call, be nice---YOU---invited THEM!!!!
Waaahhh ha ha!!!
(Seriously---they can inspect your book/collection if they like---that's the deal.
It seems they rarely need to do so.)
Waaahhh ha ha!!!
(Seriously---they can inspect your book/collection if they like---that's the deal.
It seems they rarely need to do so.)
Not a C&R permit holder but have been considering it. I wonder whether all the benefits (bypassing a FFL and saving $ in the process etc.) outweigh the risk of putting the Govt. on notice that you're a gun owner. Especially in the current political environment.
Shadow 7D
Member
Do a search, well covered topic
The one I liked best was one of our members believes in the Stalinistic approach to collecting, he was buying crates then keeping the best ones, Well when the nice guys in suits showed up they were a little surprised that his collection was more that a few rusty mausers in a closet. The BAFTE agent was quoted as bitching about checking collections that consisted of 1 or 2 guns.
Yeah, its nice to see the real price for the $350 gun
The one I liked best was one of our members believes in the Stalinistic approach to collecting, he was buying crates then keeping the best ones, Well when the nice guys in suits showed up they were a little surprised that his collection was more that a few rusty mausers in a closet. The BAFTE agent was quoted as bitching about checking collections that consisted of 1 or 2 guns.
Yeah, its nice to see the real price for the $350 gun
Like all government regulations... and the ATF rules in particular... the inspections on C&R holders seems rather loosely defined, hard to understand, and unevenly applied.
Many C&R holders report 15-20 years with no contact from the ATF. A couple have said that recently (like since an anti-American Marxist who hates guns was elected president) there have been some inspections.
People say that the ATF can only inspect your log book and cannot demand access to your home. I read the regs and I had the feeling they could indeed demand entrance to your home.
I do know that if your C&R license lapses, or if you surrender it, you do not have to turn over your records. So, I keep all copies of my license in an envelope addressed to the ATF. If I am ever contacted for an inspection and they demand to be let into my home I will simply tell them I have surrendered the license and politely ask them to leave me alone. Then I mail the envelope and destroy my log book.
Might be a good idea to let the license lapse and reapply rather than renew for this reason. Once it lapses you shred your log and start over. That way you don't have years and years of records to maintain.
Many C&R holders report 15-20 years with no contact from the ATF. A couple have said that recently (like since an anti-American Marxist who hates guns was elected president) there have been some inspections.
People say that the ATF can only inspect your log book and cannot demand access to your home. I read the regs and I had the feeling they could indeed demand entrance to your home.
I do know that if your C&R license lapses, or if you surrender it, you do not have to turn over your records. So, I keep all copies of my license in an envelope addressed to the ATF. If I am ever contacted for an inspection and they demand to be let into my home I will simply tell them I have surrendered the license and politely ask them to leave me alone. Then I mail the envelope and destroy my log book.
Might be a good idea to let the license lapse and reapply rather than renew for this reason. Once it lapses you shred your log and start over. That way you don't have years and years of records to maintain.
Shadow 7D
Member
If you check out the letters or FAQ at the ATF, I believe that you can go to thier office at the arranged time with the entirety of your collection, then if they have reason they may accesses your home, but if you aint done anything illegal that should be it.
RioShooter
Member
ATF Visit
I had a visit from the ATF this year. I've had my C&R license for less than 3 years. I was at work when two agents called at my house. They talked with my wife. They dropped off some literature and left. That was it.
For all of the "experts" that say a visit never happens, a search would reveal that it is not unusual.
I had a visit from the ATF this year. I've had my C&R license for less than 3 years. I was at work when two agents called at my house. They talked with my wife. They dropped off some literature and left. That was it.
For all of the "experts" that say a visit never happens, a search would reveal that it is not unusual.
B. Adams
Member
I've had a visit by the ATF earlier this year, after less than 2 years of having my C&R. The lady scheduled a meeting when I could be home to meet with her. She went over a bunch of rules, looked at my book, and gave me some books and papers of regulations and guidelines . All told it was about 45 minutes.
My impression is that C&R licensees don't get inspected as often as 01's, but it seems to happen fairly regularly nonetheless.
My impression is that C&R licensees don't get inspected as often as 01's, but it seems to happen fairly regularly nonetheless.
Historically the ATF does not inspect C&R holders nearly as frequently as they inspect 01 FFL dealers. That actually does make sense as the dealers are, well, dealers and it seems logical the ATF would want to spend more of it's resources making sure they are in compliance then on hobbyist collectors.
That doesn't mean the ATF *never* inspects any C&R holders though. About four or five years ago the ATF did a big push on "compliance inspections" on C&R holders across the country. It was part of a specific program to see how many collectors were in compliance with C&R regs and how many were doing things like "dealing in firearms" with a C&R license.
Since then I believe the number of C&R compliance inspections has gone back to more "normal" levels.
Also remember that at least one state, NY, won't let a resident have a C&R license without the ATF doing an educational visit first.
That doesn't mean the ATF *never* inspects any C&R holders though. About four or five years ago the ATF did a big push on "compliance inspections" on C&R holders across the country. It was part of a specific program to see how many collectors were in compliance with C&R regs and how many were doing things like "dealing in firearms" with a C&R license.
Since then I believe the number of C&R compliance inspections has gone back to more "normal" levels.
Also remember that at least one state, NY, won't let a resident have a C&R license without the ATF doing an educational visit first.
Lone_Gunman
Member
I have been on this board a long time... and you are the first C&R holder that I can recall having said they have been inspected by the ATF. I would say that is unusual, but maybe I havent been paying attention. I think I will start a poll for C&R holders and see how many have been inspected.
Hokkmike
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Not me.
gun&knifecountry
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For those C&R holders who have had a compliance visit a question. Have you bought guns from Southern Ohio Guns, Not a flame on them. Heard there were some C&R guys that were buying large lots of C&R guns a disposing of them at various gunshows and flea markets and that brought a look from the boys. Not a flame on SOG nothing they were doing was wrong.
graywolfls
Member
Had a FFL in California for almost 30 years, and regular as clockwork they came every year. Wanted to see the paperwork, Log Books and then they checked every gun (almost 200) against the logs and what was stored. I had to have a seperate safe for any guns that were mine and each one had to be marked "not for sale". Then the state made it almost impossible to keep a FFL out of you home and from what i hears the USA lost about 300,000 FFL holders, One year they came at 9 PM and demanded acess to all of the records and they were even looking for some special ammo. ( i think it was the old BAT 9mm from germany, They wanted to see every round i still had and then i had to account for every box that was sold, that was one pain in the ass.) While i was talking to one agent I asked what their wepon regulations were, Wearing his fancy BATF jacket and badge , he told me they were NOT allowed to carry on the job, they were auditors. Most audits never took less than 4-5 hours. One year at home there were three agents that came and one asked to use the restroom, I had a very sophicated CCTV system in my own home and sure as hell the agent went into my bedroom next to the toilet and proceeded to check all the corners of the room, When they left i checked the tape and thougfht about calling them on it, but discretion got the best of me. The following year i just gave it up, didn't want to deal with all the hassel. Ones mans story thats all.
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