CA Fish & Game Expands Lead Ammo Ban

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glockman19

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CA Fish & Game Expands Lead Ammo Ban

From today's LA Times.

The State Fish & Game Commission has expanded it's ban on the use of lead ammunition in hunting grounds that also are home to California Condors.
Earlier this year, the state Legislature outlawed most lead ammunition in hunting rifles, saying that rare California condors suffer lead poisioning when they eat animal carcuses left behind by hunters. Friday's 3-1 voteby game commissioners goes further, however, and prohibits the use of lead in firearms that are .22 caliber or smaller.
"It's important because it you talk to condor recovery biologists, the #1 threat to condor recovery is lead poisioning," said Kim Delfino, a representative of the group Defenders of Wildlife. With only about 300 California condors left, 17 of the birds statewide were found this year to have lead poisioning.
The New regulations go nto effect July 1, 2008.​

Now, Aren't all bullets made out of lead? Can we consider this a defacto gun ban, considering that your gun is inoperable without bullets since all bullets are made of lead?

What will they think of next.
 
Friday's 3-1 voteby game commissioners goes further, however, and prohibits the use of lead in firearms that are .22 caliber or smaller.
Who makes .22LR ammo that is 100% lead free?

Kharn
 
I believe this applies to shot, and not rifle projectiles.
NO it applies to ALL BULLETS, centerfire & rimfire.

So...
Who makes .22LR ammo that is 100% lead free?

NO ONE. and they know it. CA legislators are turning Self defense tools like guns & knives into expensive paperweights.

I don't see how a law like this can be enforceable.
 
I found the minute from the meeting. The comment about shot only is not accurate.

TITLE 14. Fish and Game Commission
Notice of Proposed Changes in Regulations
(Continuation of California Notice Register 2007, No. 40-Z, and Meetings of August 27, 2007, October 12, 2007 November 2, 2007 and December 7, 2007.)

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/2007/353_475ntc1107.pdf

I think the new part is as follow. It ban the use of .22 caliber, or smaller caliber from coyote hunting. The "underline" part is the additional on 12/7

Additionally, the proposed changes will reflect conformance with the recently passed AB 821 and language contained in Section 3004.5 of the Fish and Game Code. For nongame species other than the coyote, an exemption to this requirement is proposed for .22 caliber or less rimfire cartridges, for which no non-lead alternative is available. Lead-alternative projectiles are primarily made of copper, and are considered effective for hunting and are not considered to be toxic to the California condor.


5. Exempt .22 caliber or smaller, rimfire cartridges and their projectiles from the non-lead projectile requirement. These calibers would be exempted because there are no feasible non-lead alternatives. Therefore, coyote hunting with a .22 caliber or smaller, rimfire cartridge and their projectiles is prohibited per section 3004.5, Fish and Game Code. Nongame species killed with a .22 caliber or smaller are typically small mammals that are not considered a staple food source for condors to scavenge.
 
Another Thought

So If we can no longer shoot lead bullets in CA then what shall we cast bullets out of? Copper is too expensive. Keep in mind many ranges already ban steel ammo that shows magnetic properties so steel core ammo is out too. Ia Aluminum to light a metal to make a bullet out of? Teh soft metal would show some great expansion I'd bet.
 
Nongame species killed with a .22 caliber or smaller are typically small mammals that are not considered a staple food source for condors to scavenge.
Dose this imply smaller rodents, birds, squirrels are still able to be taken with lead ammo?
 
Of course, most of the viable alternatives to lead would be "cop killing vest busting" bullets, right?

And no, I don't believe anyone makes lead free .22lr, I have looked to shoot it at a lead free (indoor) range.

How wide of an area does this effect? Sad for those who can no longer shoot their .22's and can't afford to shoot whatever ungodly expensive junk ammo might be availible for a caliber they own.
 
I've actually cast my own aluminum .22lr bullets and plated them in copper.

They were crap.
 
Californians should not panic.

I think these regulations are subject to review and/or are proposed regulations.

Also, this only affects hunters in certain areas (condor habitat).

If there are no condors, it's not a habitat ;)


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
 
Some Condor Info.

Today the population of California condors has grown to more than 275. Of those, about 125 live in the wild at Big Sur, Pinnacles, Ventura County and the Grand Canyon, with a few in Baja California, Mexico. The rest live in captivity at the Los Angeles Zoo, San Diego Wild Animal Park and other facilities.

So We're going to create a law and enforce it for 125 birds in the wild?


Wild condors inhabit large territories, often traveling 250 kilometers (150 mi) a day in search of carrion.[25] In the early days of its existence as a species, it is thought that the California Condor lived off of the carcasses of the "megafauna", which are now extinct in North America. They still prefer to feast on large, terrestrial mammalian carcasses such as deer, goats, sheep, donkey, horse, pigs, mountain lions, bears, or cattle. Alternatively, they may feed on the bodies of smaller mammals, such as rabbits or coyotes, aquatic mammals, such as whales and sea lions, or salmon. Bird and reptile carcasses are rarely eaten. Since they do not have a sense of smell,[26] they spot these corpses by looking for other scavengers, like smaller vultures and eagles, who cannot rip through the tougher hides of these larger animals with the efficiency of the larger condor. They can usually intimidate other scavengers away from the carcass, with the exception of bears, which will ignore them, and Golden Eagles, which will fight a condor over a kill or a carcass.[14] In the wild they are intermittent eaters, often going for between a few days to two weeks without eating,[25] then gorging themselves on 1–1.5 kilograms (2–3 lb) of meat at once, sometimes to the point of being unable to lift themselves off the ground.[27]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Condor

I don't know about you but when I'm hunting, Bullet recovery is important. I want to judge the distance of the shot taken to the bullet's depth & expansion. perhaps I need a 180 grain for that shot instead of a 150 or 165 grain. And When I field dress my animal I normally dispose of the inerds by digging a hole and covering like I was taught to.

So...If I'm recovering my bullet where is the condor getting lead from?

and also...what other metal acts as a similar projectileif historically this is what they are made of?

Lead (pronounced /ˈlɛd/) is a chemical element in the periodic table that has the symbol Pb (Latin: plumbum) and atomic number 82. A soft, heavy, toxic and malleable poor metal, lead is bluish white when freshly cut, but tarnishes to dull gray when exposed to air. Lead is used in building construction, lead-acid batteries, bullets and shot, weights for model railroad cars, and is part of solder, pewter, and fusible alloys. Lead has the highest atomic number of all stable elements, although the next element, bismuth, has a half life so long (longer than the estimated age of the universe) it can be considered stable. Like mercury, another heavy metal, lead is a potent neurotoxin that accumulates in soft tissues and bone over time.​

I'd bet lead from bullets is a microfraction of the lead in the enviornment. Lead used in building construction, lead-acid batteries, weights for model railroad cars, and is part of solder, pewter, and fusible alloys is a more likely cause of lead poisioning. Should we banned them all?
 
I don't know that you'd wanna do it, but you could probably get properly licensed to make ammo and make a killing off "powder-cast" bullets.
 
Will someone finish off the last 300 birds so we can stop having to hear all the BS associated with them? Seriously folks! Problem Solved.
 
Why not just make it illegal to leave behind dead animal carcasses?

And I'm sure that 99.9% of hunters are picking up what they shoot. I strongly support hunting - but not killing for the sake of killing. If you're out there blasting away like it's the Oregon Trail video game, that's not something I support.

This is just a way to ban all ammo. Soon they'll find "reports of Condors" in new areas and then all of California will have a lead ammo ban.

This state is ridiculous. Where is the new civil war? California seceded long ago.
 
Um.. am I the only one to perceive that the ban only affects those using .22LR or smaller calibers? so in other words, you must switch from lead shot to steel shot, until you get into 00 buck (which is bigger than .22); you must use .223 to shoot coyotes, instead of .22LR.

or am I missing something? I'm perfectly okay with shooting coyotes with .223 - IMHO, If I shoot something I intend it to die right away instead of crawling off somewhere, and I personally would be determined to eat it as well.

Yes, I will eat a coyote if I shoot one. I once shot a bird sitting in my backyard tree with a Winchester air rifle because I was stupid and the bird just happened to be there. I made myself learn how to dress the bird. I then boiled it on my stove and ate as much of it as I could. Never shot at another bird in my yard again.
 
I'd be willing to bet that building subdivisions in condor habitat kills more of them than lead bullets.....but they'll never ban subdivisions

I'd be jerked if I lived in Cali, good bye $18 core-lokts....hello $44 barnes tsx's
 
BobbyQuickdraw said:
Why not just make it illegal to leave behind dead animal carcasses?

Because the people behind the law probably don't give two ****s about condors but hate ordinary civilian guns and gun owners. I doubt the evidence behind their legislation is even legitimate.


silverlance you must be Chinese because you're reading backwards or something. I read the exact opposite; ie all hunting with lead already has been banned, and they are proposing to exempt .22lr because there is no non-lead .22lr.

arlier this year, the state Legislature outlawed most lead ammunition in hunting rifles
5. Exempt .22 caliber or smaller, rimfire cartridges and their projectiles from the non-lead projectile requirement. These calibers would be exempted because there are no feasible non-lead alternatives.
 
Man, can anybody read?

1. This does NOT ban lead ammo in California, or any part of California, for target shooting, plinking or self-defense.

2. This does NOT ban the use of lead rimfire ammo or lead centerfire ammo on small game, or lead shot on upland birds (lead shot is already banned for waterfowl throughout North America).

3. What this DOES do is ban the use of lead ammo on any game or varmint that is Condor food, i.e. coyote or larger.

4. What this specific ruling does is even more limited: it bans the use of .22 and .17 rimfire ammo on coyotes. Not on squirrels, not on rabbits, just on coyotes. You can shoot coyotes with centerfire ammo, which must be non-lead.

Now I object to this ammo ban for a number of reasons, including that I like muzzleloading -- not in-line sabot wannabe modern rifles, but the real thing, hand cast bullets with loose powder. Also, I think the Condor should have been allowed to die out, and the millions of dollars spent in an attempt to stave off its inevitable extinction should have been spent elsewhere (like on an all-state keg party, for all I care).

But be that as it may, this does not have any impact on the defensive use of firearms. It's an expensive nuisance for hunters, but it doesn't stop anyone from using whatever bullets he/she wants to for self-defense, target shooting, training, etc.
 
So...If I'm recovering my bullet where is the condor getting lead from?
Remember what John McClane said in the TV version of Die Hard 2: "...The lead in your a** or the junk in your brains?"

Seems to fit the description of CA politicians too! ahaha :supergrin:

*further edited to make sure I don't anger any THR mods, just CMA :)
 
But be that as it may, this does not have any impact on the defensive use of firearms. It's an expensive nuisance for hunters, but it doesn't stop anyone from using whatever bullets he/she wants to for self-defense, target shooting, training, etc.
Agreed and understood.
 
Since the Liberals in Canada modeled so much of our anti-freedom legislation on California's, you may as well know something else they've done.

They demanded that the gov't had to test every ammo type fired, for it to be allowed to be imported.

Then when everyone was happily importing shiploads of comblock ammo they decided that it was hazardous to health to fire it at their indoor testing range. Since they couldn't test it no one could therefore import it.


If you think your California Liberals are above this sort of thing and non-hunting ammunition won't be affected by any type of health&welfare BS I hope you're right.
 
I didn't say they were above this sort of thing. One of our worst problems in California is that our legislature meets full time, unlike that of a lot of other states, and produces 4 new laws per day. They make laws about anything and everything, just so they have something to do, screw how it impacts anyone.

Right now, our greater concern is a law that some idiots keep trying to push to make is essentially illegal to breed dogs, and to force all pets to be fixed at too early an age.

I have a rescued dog; I understand the problem with excess pets and having to euthanize them. But I also have a bred hunting dog, and I don't think that ethical breeders and working dog owners, neither of whom are the problem here, should be punished for it.
 
more Condor info:
CondorMortality2.gif
So We're now cow towing to 3 birds, juvenal at that, that have died in CA due to Lead poision. In CA Powerlines and starvation appear to be more dangerous. And 2 of the 3 "Appear" to be from lead poisioning no difinitave reason. 2 Even drowned. Let's drain the rivers & Lakes. :p
 
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