CA: "Loaded", Clarified?

[BerettaNut92]

From 12031

(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or
shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but
not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be
deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.

So....mags, clips etc can be loaded, as long as it isn't attached to the firearm (underlined above?)

And it appears that having a long gun w/ over 16" barrel length in the car is ok because it is not a 'concealable' firearm. Most of the restrictions apply to 'concealable' firearms, i.e. handguns.

Your thoughts?

 

[Tamara]

So....mags, clips etc can be loaded, as long as it isn't attached to the firearm (underlined above?)

That's what it says; however the law means whatever is wrangled out between the DA, your attorney, and the jury.

 

[Sven]

Yeah, just imagine the jury they'd give you, Skunk.

 

[jimbo]

Also from 12031, anyone carrying a loaded gun is guilty of a misdemeanor and not a felony. Interesting.

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Working the range, we’d have customers come in all the time with this question.

The whole ‘thereof attached to the firearm’ part is the kicker. Yes, a long arm (over 16â€) are considered ‘non-concealable’ and therefore can be carried in the vehicle just stuffed under the seat or in the cargo area for those of us doing our part to change the environment, by driving those nasty SUVs.

But what if there’s a loose round rolling around the floorboards? (I don’t smoke- guess where all the loose rounds end up?) And what if as you take a corner, that round happens to make contact with the firearm? Is that ‘attached’? Arguably, yes. Ergo: loaded weapon.

I’d hate to be the test court case that sets precedent on that one.

 

[Standing Wolf]

No matter what the "law" states in the People's Republic of California, I'm sure it's up to the arresting officer and district attorney. One of the main reasons I left the P.R.C. last year to return to the United States is that "law" there is a whimsical, chimerical concept.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Skunk, you should have seen the hassle I had over an EMPTY .22LR casing in the bed of my pick-up in Cali. Full search of the ruck and me, and dogs called to sniff. Just try saying "no" to the search and see the hole you dig. Your vehicle will become a cop magnet from then on. (And it'll be a cop magnet anyway if they know you're carrying fowling pieces in there regularly.) If you want to waste time and hassle with the cops, it's up to you. But what the law actually says and what cops actually do in that state are two different things. Try driving around in Simi Valley and get stopped there. See what happens.

 

[CGofMP]

If I rememebr Right: back in 86/87 the wonderful DA in Santa Clara County had deemed speed loaders to be "part of the firearm". So if you got stopped with a loaded speed loader and a revolver....




Charles

 

[Russ]

There are also a number of Temple City Sherriffs Deputies that really give LEO's a bad name.

 

[braindead0]

Hmm, so you could have a Colt Navy revolver ready to go but without the caps.....hmm... ;-)

 

[shooten]

I realize I'm at the mercy of the DA, but if I have my firearm locked in my trunk and a clip loaded in my backpack on my front seat, do they consider that loaded? In other words, can I keep a loaded clip in the car as long as it's not attached to the firearm? My reading of the citation says yes???

Scott

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Yes (not a lawyer so don't call me as a witness) as I understand Cali PC, you'd be fine. Your vehicle trunk is deemed a 'locked container' for purposes of transportation, as your glove box is specifically not.

As long as your ammunition is kept seperate, you're good to go.

 

[shooten]

Thanks for the quick reply. If there's one thing I hate, it's an empty magazine.

Scott

 

[STW]

I understand that a magazine is considered part of the firearm even when it's not loaded in the firearm. Therefore, a loaded magazine equals a loaded firearm. It's not worth it to test the limits of this little rule as far as I'm concerned.

 

[shooten]

STW,

I've heard that as well. My sister works in a law office here in San Diego County with a guy who is knowledgable about these things. I'll post the answer if he knows anything. I see you're in Carlsbad. We can at least find out how the DA treats things here.

Scott

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

I hadn't heard about the 'loaded magazine = loaded firearm' provision before, it was my understanding that the loaded magazine had to be 'attached to the firearm' (next to, in the same container as, etc.) I'd be curious to hear what your lawyer contact says.

And a side note; I think this situation sucks. Here we are, law abiding gun owners trying to stay on the safe side of the law. We have access to the actual penal code section itself and yet it’s written so vaguely as to be incomprehensible. If someone at the DOJ would just make a freakin’ decision as to what constitutes a loaded firearm and what does not, it would make this whole process a lot easier.

Ok. I'm better now.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Laws are purposely written vague to allow leeway for individual police officer's own interpretation of it.

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Sir Galahad: I understand that, but it really makes staying legal an interesting dance.

You could have a situation such as: Returning from the range, handguns locked in truck. Loaded magazines in range bag in passenger compartment. You get pulled over for a taillight out or something similar. You play it straight and everything is cool with the officer. He writes you the fix-it ticket and off you go on your way.

Same situation, except the officer has had a bad day. Maybe you had a bad day at the range. A little attitude on either side of the conversation and next thing the officer wants to inspect the firearms in the car (let’s say that he saw the range bag- maybe you have some targets rolled up next to it) to make sure they’re being transported legally. Loaded magazines? Uh-oh. Please step out of the vehicle and keep your hands where I can see them.

Same perimeters in each situation but different dynamics between the parties involved. I’m a gentleman of leisure and practice anger management and conflict avoidance, but I’d really like a more definite line that I know I shouldn’t cross, not a blurry ‘zone’ where my incarceration can be predicated by a ‘bad day’.

 

[jato]

Per a Deputy District Attorney in San Diego County, a “loaded firearm†consists of a firearm with ammunition touching the weapon.

A semi-auto, with an empty chamber and empty magazine well is unloaded. The same gun with a loaded magazine resting one inch away from the weapon is still “unloadedâ€. Once the magazine or ammunition touches the weapon it is considered "loaded".

 

[shooten]

Thanks Jato. Is Bob Phillips still around? He was my Criminal Justice prof at Palomar College many moons ago.

Scott