Your St. Law: When Is A firearm Considered Loaded?

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Gary Slider

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Handgunlaw.us is going to add a section to each states page that gives the state law on when a firearm is considered loaded. This varies widely from state to state. What I am looking for is the Statute that defines “When is a firearm loaded. I don’t need the link to the law I just need the Alpha/Numeric for your states code. I can look it up easily myself. Example of what I need is “76-10-502” like the Utah Law below. There may be more than one section in a states statutes that defines this and there could be definitions on when a firearm is loaded in the States Administrative Rules also. This info will be added to each states page on or about 1/1/11 as that is when Iowa goes Shall Issue and honors every states permit/license. I have to update every states page at that time and this would be a great time to do it. Any assistance you could give handgunlaw.us would be greatly appreciated. I could find all this material myself but would have to go through all the states laws which would take many hours. Thank you for any assistance you can give handgunlaw.us in this matter and the time you will save me.
76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded.
(1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
(2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
(3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.
 
California anytime a bullet and weapon on in the same County!:barf:

Look here for one source.
And this one looks better for the long version.
 
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Gary:

For non-licensees (including folks who are licensed in states that OH doesn't recognize) ANY ammunition in the vehicle that's in a magazine or speedloader makes the gun loaded. (Long guns are included.)

En-Block and Stripper Clips are specifically exempted because ammunition for certain weapons is sold that way and it unreasonable (egad - real logic in OH!) to assume that the owner would empty them for transport.

The loaded magazines or speedloaders are a violation if they are merely in the vehicle even if putting them together is essentially impossible.

Licensees are exempted from this for handguns....

Can't say for long guns.

OH is an Open Carry state.... However to carry open you have to completely unload the gun while driving to wherever you want to carry.... Then get out of the vehicle and load up.... You can't OC in the vehicle without a license....

Regards
 
Gary,

Washington State:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.010

RCW 9.41.010
Terms defined.

Unless the context clearly requires otherwise, the definitions in this section apply throughout this chapter.

(10) "Loaded" means:

(a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

(b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

(c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

(d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

(e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader.
 
Gary,

Alaska:
http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/folioproxy.asp?url=http://wwwjnu01.legis.state.ak.us/cgi-bin/folioisa.dll/stattx09/query=*/doc/{t4663}/pageitems={body}?

11.61.220:
(f) For purposes of (a)(2) and (e) of this section, a firearm is loaded if the

(1) firing chamber, magazine, clip, or cylinder of the firearm contains a cartridge; and

(2) chamber, magazine, clip, or cylinder is installed in or on the firearm.
 
California anytime a bullet and weapon on in the same County!


Actually California is more lenient than several states in the midwest, and much of the east coast.

Not only can you have both ammo and firearm in immediate possession and control, you can have loaded detached magazines, loaded side saddles, bandoleers, loose ammunition, etc
You simply cannot have a round in the firearm or a loaded detachable magazine inserted into the firearm, rounds in a fixed magazine, or a round in the chamber without it being considered loaded.
 
To the best of my knowledge, there's no clear definition of loaded/unloaded in Georgia's firearms/weapons laws.
 
Utah's law is actually poorly written, I started a thread on this several months ago.

Autos isn't complicated, you can have a magazine in the weapon but no round chambered, it is not loaded. For REVOLVERS however, it is trickier. It says that there must me two mechanical actions between unloaded and firing, and it ALSO says that there may not be a loaded cartridge in the 'firing position'. Where this gets silly, is in interpreting whether or not a live round resting under the hammer is the firing position. When the hammer comes back, the live cartridge will be rotated out of the way. It is impossible to fire the live cartridge under the hammer, there it is not the firing position. This means, depending on the cop who is asking, you would need to leave two chambers empty on a revolver for it to be carried unloaded.

The easier answer is get a permit, carry it, don't worry about it.
 
In Florida there is no definition of loaded vs unloaded in the statutes.

I did a quick search and did not find any court cases that define it either.

This, I would assume, is due to the fact that there is really no difference between the two as far as criminal acts go.

There are a couple references allowing unloaded 'wrapped' carry from a place of purchase to home/work. But nothing else is more or less legal due to the firearm being unloaded/loaded.
 
Vermont:

10 V.S.A. § 4705. Shooting from motor vehicles or aircraft; permit

(b) A person shall not carry or possess while in or on a vehicle propelled by mechanical power or drawn by a vehicle propelled by mechanical power within the right of way of a public highway a rifle or shotgun containing a loaded cartridge or shell in the chamber, mechanism, or in a magazine, or clip within a rifle or shotgun, or a muzzle-loading rifle or shotgun that has been charged with powder and projectile and the ignition system of which has been enabled by having an affixed or attached percussion cap, primer, battery, or priming powder, except as permitted under subsections (d) and (e) of this section. A person who possesses a rifle or shotgun in or on a vehicle propelled by mechanical power, or drawn by a vehicle propelled by mechanical power within a right of way of a public highway shall upon demand of an enforcement officer exhibit the firearm for examination to determine compliance with this section.

This only applies to long guns in motor vehicles. Handguns are unregulated. There are no other regulations governing the loading of firearms in VT.
 
NY 265 of Penal law.
Loaded means having the gun and ammo handy.
Unloaded gun in right pocket, ammo in left pocket = a loaded gun.
 
Thanks everyone for your assistance. I have completed the task. Handgunlaw.us will be updated with this info around 1/1/11. Reason for the delay? Every state page will have to be updated then as Iowa will honors all other states permits/licenses. Thanks Again and Stay safe, Gary Slider
 
Thanks everyone for your assistance. I have completed the task. Handgunlaw.us will be updated with this info around 1/1/11. Reason for the delay? Every state page will have to be updated then as Iowa will honors all other states permits/licenses. Thanks Again and Stay safe, Gary Slider

Man, it would be awesome if Iowa would honor Vermont's 'permit.' But somehow I doubt they will.
 
While what I said earlier for California is accurate, there is other laws besides "loaded" that come to play but are similar.
For example a concealed loaded magazine for a handgun is not considered a concealed handgun when you have a handgun locked up or don't have immediate access to a handgun that uses it.
Yet case law says the magazine is a handgun if you have immediate access (not locked in a case) to the handgun it goes to, even if you are legally carrying or possessing the unloaded handgun (absent a license to carry a concealed weapon permit which makes someone immune to PC12025.)
This only applies to handguns and handgun magazines though, not rifles or shotguns (shotguns with detachable magazines are banned as assault weapons though so it only matters for those who already have some registered.)
You can carry a rifle magazine concealed all you want while in possession of the rifle, PC12025 only applies to handguns or some AOWS but specifically not rifles or shotguns.

But the above situation with a loaded handgun magazine is not considered a loaded gun nor are you considered in possession of a loaded gun, instead the loaded magazine is considered an illegally concealed handgun.


Yet if the loaded magazine for a handgun you have in your immediate possession (like open carried or sitting beside you outside of any locked container) is carried openly then it is not considered illegal concealment of a handgun.
If you don't have the handgun and just the loaded magazine concealed it also wouldn't be a concealed handgun meeting the case law definition and be legal.
You could juggle loaded magazines while you have a handgun strapped to your waist in public (more than 1,000 feet from a school zone) and be perfectly legal, but if you put one of the loaded magazines in a pocket you illegally concealed a handgun.

It sounds weird because it is. It was created through case law when some judge determined a loaded concealed magazine was a handgun under the law for enforcement purposes of PC12025 while someone has immediate use of the handgun (this does not apply if the actual handgun is locked up in a case or not possessed.)


So once again it is not a violation of the loaded law (PC12031), and it is not a violation of having a loaded handgun, and if loaded the magazine is never considered a loaded handgun, but if loaded and concealed while in possession of a handgun that can use the magazine the concealed loaded magazine is considered a concealed handgun in violation of PC12025.
It only applies to handguns, you can carry rifle magazines concealed while you have immediate possession of the rifle all you want.


What all of this means is that if you legally are carrying an unloaded handgun and you put a legally possessed loaded magazine in your pocket you just illegally concealed a handgun under PC12025 (even though the actual handgun itself is still legal and not concealed), but you never once possessed or are guilty of having a loaded handgun (PC12031.)
So a loaded magazine for a handgun can be a concealed handgun, but it is not a loaded handgun.
 
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Zoogster,

Do you have the case that they stated a loaded magazine concealed on you was considered a loaded firearm? If so I would like to have the case info. I am going to search for it in CA but finding Case Law is very difficult. Thanks for any help you can give me on this.
 
This guy is not an attorney but This is something I found at http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/LegalCalifornia

Some police officers regard any loaded magazine to be a loaded weapon. The reasoning which has been employed, is that because a magazine-fed gun will not function normally without a magazine installed, the magazine itself is a part of the gun. By this reasoning, a loaded magazine is a loaded weapon. This does not apply to stripper clips (see SKS) or en-bloc clips (see M1 Garand), however. This has been shown to be untrue in case law, however it remains a frequently held position amongst LEOs.

Still Looking
 
It only applies to handgun magazines and only when the handgun is immediately available for use with the magazine.
The reason it never applies to long gun magazines is because the entire law against concealing a firearm does not apply to long guns (PC12025.) The way case law defines a 'firearm capable of being concealed upon the person' does not apply to rifles or shotguns (or parts thereof.)
It applies to pistols, revolvers, and could also apply to things like small AOWS or legally defined short barreled rifles and shotguns. But specifically does not apply to rifles and shotguns as defined by state law. That would be a long gun over 26" in length (and centerfire rifles must be 30" in length to not be an 'assault weapon'.)
Shotguns with detachable magazines are assault weapons under the assault weapon laws, and legally registered assault weapons generally must be transported under the same requirements as handguns. So it hardly matters for them.
Non assault-weapon rifle detached magazines however would not count.
Non-assault weapon long guns for example can be concealed at will in a vehicle under the law, outside of any locked case for the same reason. You could have a rifle or shotgun sitting beside you in your car covered by a blanket or piece of clothing and be completely legal. Under the seat, along side the door, on the floor under things in the back seat, or anywhere in the vehicle it doesn't matter there is no law against having them concealed. PC12025 does not apply to them, and never has.





The relevant case law concerning handgun magazines explains it has to do with being part of the complete firearm when concerning handguns, as an essential component completing the firearm.
The case is People vs Hale.
To really understand case law though you need to know what various little word combinations they say refer to.
Seemingly normal speech can actually refer specifically to statute wording with its own case law definitions in the penal code (like 'firearm capable of being concealed' for example).
In Hale the court determined concealing the loaded magazine was partial concealment of the total firearm as it applies to PC12025 (but it is never considered a loaded firearm per PC12031.)
This is also why you know it specifically does not apply to long gun magazines, because partial concealment (or total concealment) of a long gun is not legally restricted.


Ironically the whole reason the judge likely made the crazy decision in the Hale case was so finding the drugs wouldn't become inadmissible because there was no legitimate legal reason to perform the search (which was supposedly to find ammunition for a firearm that was perfectly legal to have sitting out in the open at that time in the 70s.)
By saying a concealed magazine was in fact a crime it kept probable cause and the search valid, which means finding the drugs was still admissible. Since the drug charges were the cornerstone of the entire prosecution if the probable cause for the search was not valid the entire case would have been thrown out.

Here is a summary of the important part of the Hale case which cites additional case law in it:

http://ca.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.\CA\CA3\1974\19741120_0040106.CA.htm/qx

[43 CalApp3d Page 356]

The facts known to the officer at the time of the search gave him reasonable cause to suspect Hale was committing a crime, viz. unlicensed carrying of a firearm concealed in a vehicle (Pen. Code, ? 12025*fn2). Only partial concealment of a firearm is required. (People v. Koehn, 25 Cal. App. 3d 799, 802 [102 Cal. Rptr. 102]; People v. Tarkington, 273 Cal. App. 2d 466, 469 [78 Cal. Rptr. 149]; People v. Linden, 185 Cal. App. 2d 752, 757 [8 Cal. Rptr. 640].) One portion of the automatic pistol, the housing and barrel, was visible, and it was reasonable for the officer to suspect concealment nearby of the remaining portion of the firearm, the automatic clip and ammunition. (See Green v. State (Okla.Crim.) 489 P.2d 768.) A firearm disassembled into two or more parts, can nevertheless constitute an operable weapon within the meaning of the Dangerous Weapons Control Law. (People v. Ekberg, 94 Cal. App. 2d 613, 616-617 [211 P.2d 316]; see also, State v. Ware (Fla.App.) 253 So.2d 145.)

"The carrying of concealed firearms is prohibited as a means of preventing physical harm to persons other than the offender." (People v. Jurado, 25 Cal. App. 3d 1027, 1032 [102 Cal. Rptr. 498].) In our opinion concealment of an essential component of a visible weapon, when done in such a fashion as to make the weapon readily available for use as a firearm, presents a threat to public order comparable to concealment of the entire firearm and falls within the prohibition of section 12025. In the light of the bizarre arsenal of weaponry Hale had installed around the driver's seat of his automobile, Officer Price had reasonable cause to suspect that a clip and ammunition for the automatic pistol might be hidden close at hand and to make a search for them.


So it becomes illegal to conceal the magazine when it makes "the weapon readily available for use as a firearm".
It is a loaded magazine that made the firearm readily available (which is entirely legal under PC12031 the loaded weapon law as that does not qualify as loaded per statute and case law) and the fact that it was concealed that makes it a crime per PC12025 according to the case law set by Hale.
Obviously if the handgun itself is locked up or at home then the magazine does not make it readily available as a weapon. The magazine itself is completely useless as a weapon.
Per the case law it is both the availability of the "clip and ammunition" combined with having the rest of the firearm at hand that made it available as a weapon and according to the judge constituted a violation because it made the 'weapon readily available for use as a firearm' partially concealed when the loaded magazine was concealed.
Making it a partially concealed handgun per the Hale decision.

In light of the case law one would probably be best not concealing a magazine while having a handgun readily available (not locked up.) But according to the case law it is the whole package being readily available for use as a weapon that made concealing part of it illegal.
 
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Gary-MD 4-203 does not mention it but all rules allowing transport under very restrictive exceptions require the magazine to be out of the firearm. Of course CHP holders are exempted.

The MD AG has issued an opinion that loaded magazines do not constitute a loaded weapon when the magazine is not in the firearm. I can provide the pdf if you want it.

Unfortunately, many MD LEO's and gun shops think otherwise.
 
swinokur,

If you have the PDF would you please send it to [email protected] or send the link for it or the AG Opinion # for it. I can look it up.

If you send the PDF Please put MD AG Opinion in the Subject line of your email. That way I know the email is from someone I ask for something for. I get a lot of spam with a lot of attachments that are not real.

Thank you and
 
This is a great topic. I live in Virginia, and went to Maryland to shoot with a buddy in Montgomery County. There, I opened my case since they asked to inspect my gun visually. The clerk recoiled in horror and said, "Your gun is loaded; you could go to jail for that." I said, "Really?!!?" and nothing more. What they saw was an unloaded Smith & Wesson J-frame with two speedloaders next to it. Anybody with any sense could tell you they were wrong and had just bought into the urban legend. "Loaded" means ready to fire, not two items proximate. Thanks for the opportunity to comment.
 
Some folks like to perpetuate the urban myth that loaded mags are considered a weapon in MD, Not true. Attached AG opinion settles that for me,
 
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