Your St. Law: When Is A firearm Considered Loaded?

[fisheye]

I live in eastern PA and have a PA carry permit. New Jersey has always had unusually harsh firearm laws: http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/062408_title13ch54.pdf

There are urban myths that their State Police will tear apart out of state vehicles if they spot you in hunters attire. The goal of their search is supposedly to turn up ammunition that is either contraband (hollow point or dum dum) or they will get you for possessing ammunition without the proper permit. I do know, from scanning their law, that even stun guns are not allowed and clips that hold over 15 rounds. They do not honor our PA carry permits - of course many states do not honor other states carry permits.

I guess, why I am posting this is: because you can not only get in trouble for a loaded weapon; you can also get in trouble for the kind of ammunition and the size of the magazine that you carry.

 

[Gary Slider]

Possession and Transportation of Hollow Point Ammo In NJ

Provided certain conditions are met, a sportsman may transport and use hollow point ammunition. There are no restrictions preventing a sportsman from keeping such ammunition at his home.
N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) limits the possession of hollow nose ammunition. However, there is a general exception that allows for the purchase of this ammunition but restricts the possession of it to specified locations. This exception provides that:

(2) Nothing is sub section f (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land . . . [N.J.S.A 26:39-3g (2)].

Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition "persons engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f. . . ." N.J.S.A 26:39-3f. (1).
Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows:

1.A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police;
2.A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;
3.A person going directly to a target range, and;
4.A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."

As with other ammunition and firearms, a sportsman would have to comply with the provisions of N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f and g when transporting hollow nose ammunition to a target range. The ammunition should be stored in a closed and fastened container or locked in the trunk of the motor vehicle in which it is being transported. The course of travel should be as direct as possible when going to and leaving from the target range with "only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances." N.J.S.A 2C:39-6g.

 

[788Ham]

Zoogster,

In your comment you wrote, "Not only can you have a loaded detached magazine...." In the next paragraph you stated, " You simply cannot have rounds in a fixed magazine." Is a "detached" magazine different from an "fixed" magazine?

 

[SMMAssociates]

788Ham:

A "detached" magazine is the one your trusty 1911 uses.... (I presume they don't just mean "installed".) A "fixed" magazine is built into the firearm - like the tube on your trusty scattergun, or the internal storage on an '03....

Or so it appears.... I don't think they mean "installed" when they say "fixed".

BTW, here in OH - I think I mentioned this before - for unlicensed individuals transporting handguns, no ammunition can be in any magazine or speedloader. Same for any transport of long guns. (The licensing is still only for handguns.) "En Bloc" and "Stripper Clips" are OK, though, since the ammunition is sold that way. (Amazingly reasonable for a state that previously felt that any ammunition in the vehicle made the gun loaded. Licensed transport of loaded handguns was still legal.)

Regards,

 

[fisheye]

I just wanted to thank you Gary.

However; you have to admit that the New Jersey laws are harsh - with plenty of stipulations that could get you in trouble. I don’t think that you can sum up all the problems with their laws in just a few sentences.

Forty years ago I had a friend that made a trip to NJ and forgot the assault weapon (by their standards) he had in his trunk. I said had a friend; I never saw him after that. I believe he speaks with a Jersey accent now!

 

[deafdave3]

Here in Louisiana, that specific topic is the same as Texas.... nobody concerns themselves with the difference between loaded and unloaded. However, it is common courtesy around here to have your action opened if entering a gunshop, gun class, etc.

 

[Zoogster]

Zoogster,

In your comment you wrote, "Not only can you have a loaded detached magazine...." In the next paragraph you stated, " You simply cannot have rounds in a fixed magazine." Is a "detached" magazine different from an "fixed" magazine?

A "fixed" magazine as defined by state law is one that takes a "tool" to remove.
This includes most tubular magazines, non-removable magazines, magazines welded in place or screwed in, as well as any typically detachable magazine that cannot be removed by just your hands and requires some other object.

This is why they now have the "bullet button" which is a mag release that is impossible to press with your finger because it is a tiny recessed button, but that can be pushed by something pointy, such as a spitzer bullet tip.
These guns then technically have a magazine that requires a "tool" to be removed because you could never press the button with your finger, and thus are "fixed".
A gun with a "fixed magazine" is not subject to all the restrictions on features, like no pistol grip, etc Those restrictions apply to guns with "detachable" magazines.

However the law also says any centerfire rifle with a "fixed" magazine that holds over 10 rounds is a felony "assault weapon". While a rifle with just a "detachable magazine" holding 11+ can be legal with pre-ban magazines and is a far less severe crime even with illegal post ban magazines.
So say someone took their legal pre ban magazine that holds 20-30 rounds and is perfectly legal to use in guns that take "detachable magazines" and plugged it into their non-assault weapon bullet-buttoned firearm. They just created a rifle with a "fixed magazine" holding more than 10 rounds, aka a felony assault weapon.

 

[MrWesson]

Florida doesn't recognize loaded vs unloaded in any situation.

 

[X-Rap]

Check game laws as well, most states have some kind of definition of loaded gun in their hunting regs.

 

[Gary Slider]

X-Rap,

you are correct on where to find a state law on what is loaded. That is where most of them are found. People carrying their hunting firearms in their vehicle. Here in WV you can't carry a loaded hunting gun in a vehicle even with a permit/license to carry. Must be a defensive Handgun. No scopes or long barrels. Law is open to actually what is a hunting handgun. If you lean your loaded hunting rifle against your vehicle you are breaking the law in WV and will be cited for having a loaded hunting gun in your vehicle. Same with a ATV. If it is loaded and leaning against it you can be cited.