CA Resident Returning With Firearm Purchased Out of State
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AirForceShooter
Member
not even a rifle or shotgun?
AFS
AFS
Not out of state. It's legal at the Federal level to buy a long gun out of state at an FFL, but only if it's legal according to the laws of BOTH states. CA doesn't allow it, so it's not legal.
The only way is to ship the gun to a CA FFL to have the required DROS done.
Librarian
Member
See also the Calguns Foundation wiki article on interstate transfer -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transferring_firearms_Interstate
Black Butte
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OUCH!
I didn't realize California was this bad when it comes to suppressing interstate commerce. The other states should return the favor by banning the importation of alcohol (i.e., wine) from California.
I didn't realize California was this bad when it comes to suppressing interstate commerce. The other states should return the favor by banning the importation of alcohol (i.e., wine) from California.
NavyLCDR
member
natman said:
He never claimed to be a California resident when he purchased the firearm. College students, winter/summer homes and military members, for example, may have dual states of residency.
Oh it is worse than that due to many local FFLs.
Most of the big chains charge 75-$150 for an out of state transfer to be transferred to them and then to you.
CA requires another $35 fee.
On top of that CA has just started requiring FFLs to collect state sales tax on the total price of the item, which is nearly 10% many places.
Then you have shipping costs.
This means you can find a gun for $200 cheaper online and still have it cost more to purchase it online than to buy it at a local store.
Now you can shop around for cheaper transfers, some of the non chain store FFLs will do them for half that cost, but the retail chains don't want to make it any easier for you to go around them.
So between California sales tax, and California's $35 transfer fees, plus the large sum many FFLs charge for out of state transfers, 'buying' a gun out of state (which by CA law will require it go to a CA FFL for transfer to you) costs more than buying one in California. Even though the sticker price is typically higher on them in California.
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I'm sure that there at FFLs that charge quite a bit, but transfer fees that I'm aware of usually run between $35 and $50.
I think you have confused the fees that CA requires. The CA DROS is $25. You might be thinking of the PPT fee, which is $10...which when added to the $25 DROS, is $35.
Internet purchases have always been subject to use fees. If not collected by the FFL at the POS, there is a handy place on your tax return for you to report and list the amount...I am interested where they charge 10% state sales tax.
Shipping cost for my last two handgun purchases were $12 and my last long gun was $18 (larger container)
rromeo
Member
The use tax on out of state purchases has been on the books for over 70 years.
Count yourself lucky then.
The $35 is a state maximum for in state transfers.
$25 to the state, and up to $10 for the dealer, and I have never seen a retail one that charges less than the $10 maximum.
So its almost always $35 in state.
Out of state transfers have no limit, so the dealer gets to decide.
I know of several that charge well over $100 (just had a $150 quote), and many that charge $75+. $50 is a rarer, and lower than that is typically not through a storefront FFL but some friend with an FFL.
No confusion, I just wanted to keep it simple for out of state readers, the in state fee is virtually always $35 added to the cost, and the out of state fee higher.
From 4/01/09 - 6/30/11 the state sales tax rate was 8.25%, and currently it is 7.25%. On top of that counties add additional tax rates at a local level to the base sales tax.
When it was 8.25% many people were near or above the 10% sales tax total, and some are still quite close.
Here you can sort and view the sales tax rate by county and city:
http://www.boe.ca.gov/cgi-bin/rates.cgi
You will see many are currently 8.75% one of the most common rates, most of which were 9.75% when the state base sales tax was 1% higher before 6/30/11. This meant much of the state was just below 10%.
For an example of cities currently above 9%:
El Cerrito* 9.250 %
El Monte* 9.250 %
Inglewood* 9.250 %
9.000 % San Leandro*
9.250 % Union City*
9.250 % Santa Monica*
9.250 % South El Monte*
9.750 % Pico Rivera*
9.750 % South Gate*
La is currently trying to take it back up to about 10% at the county level:
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan/06/local/la-me-measure-r-20120106
And finally we all know most citizens accurately account for all of their internet purchases and pay use tax. Making sure to note each time they buy something from out of state so they can pay the state at the end of the year.
GuysModel94
Member
I've recently purchased 2 handguns and a rifle, all three DROS fees were $25.-, TurnersOutdoorsman charger $30.- and sticks the extra $5.- in their pocket. Local gun store (Bullseye in Riverside) charger $60.- to handle out of state transfers.
That's what I pay, $25 to the state, $35 to the FFL...4 local FFLs to choose fromGuysModel94 said:
I guess it really is a bit cheaper to live in NorCal.Zoogster said:
I see what you did thereShawnC said:
For folks who don't: POS in a sales environment is Point of Sale, in the judicial environment it is Proof of Service
natman said:
Here's the original post:
tacstar said:
Under the circumstances I think it's entirely appropriate to answer the question as if the subject was a CA resident.
Quiet
Member
A non-FFL licensed CA resident can purchase a firearm in another state.natman said:
But, the non-FFL licensed CA resident can not legally take possession of the firearm, unless the firearm is transfered through a CA FFL dealer.
So, a CA resident can pay for a firearm out-of-state, then pay to have it shipped to a CA FFL dealer, where they then 4473/DROS + pay transfer fee + pay use tax + wait 10 days.
medalguy
Member
I'm sure glad I don't have the privilege of residing in California.
leadcounsel
member
As others mentioned, several valid reasons a CA resident may have purchased out of state firearms - off the top of my head, C&R holder on a trip, dual state residency, or inheritance, or gift, or military member on orders elsewhere.
Yes, or you could be a CA resident with an FFL. Or you could have dual Earth-Martian citizenship or be a time traveler from before 1968, either of which might complicate things. However, since the OP didn't mention any of these exceptional conditions, it seems reasonable to answer the OP's question in the context it was asked.
So, in the context of the OP's question, if you are a mere mortal CA resident you can't buy a gun in another state and bring it back with you. You have to have it shipped to a CA FFL.
NavyLCDR
member
natman said:
Respectfully, we don't know what the context of the OP's question is, because we don't have enough info to determine in what context the OP's question is in.
It's not really a California issue. It's a matter of federal law.medalguy said:
But as NavyLCDR points out:
NavyLCDR said:
So here is pretty much the whole story (without the C&R or possible dual residency dimensions), so maybe the OP can work it out.
[1] Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL.
[2] In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.
[3] In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer is in compliance with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complied with the law of the transferee's State of residence.
[4] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.
[5] There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.
[6] The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).
Here's what the statutes say:
Fiddletown said:
On the contrary, it is a California issue.
It is federal law that one is limited by while out of state, but it is because the federal law says the sale of a long gun out of state must comply with California law for California residents.
It then becomes a matter of California law, which requires a California FFL be involved in every firearm transfer.
So as it applies to long guns it is because of California law, which is merely enforced by federal law out of state.
The residents of most states are free to purchase a long gun out of state, and take possession of it out of state, and use it out of state. Then return to their state with it.
Federal law is giving extraterritorial jurisdiction to states over their residents within US borders.
On the contrary, it is a California issue.
It is federal law that one is limited by while out of state, but it is because the federal law says the sale of a long gun out of state must comply with California law for California residents.
It then becomes a matter of California law, which requires a California FFL be involved in every firearm transfer.
So as it applies to long guns it is because of California law, which is merely enforced by federal law out of state.
The residents of most states are free to purchase a long gun out of state, and take possession of it out of state, and use it out of state. Then return to their state with it.
Federal law is giving extraterritorial jurisdiction to states over their residents within US borders.
Well, I quoted his original message. IMO, it's quite clear that when he asks what protocol "a CA resident" must follow to bring back a gun purchased in another state, he is referring to an ordinary non-licensee. If the person in question had a C&R, an FFL, was receiving an inheritance or any of the other exceptional circumstances that would allow him to bring the gun back without the services of a CA FFL, he would have said so. Since there's not the slightest hint that any of these exceptions apply, an answer geared towards an ordinary person is perfectly reasonable.
He asked a straightforward question, he got a straightforward answer. I don't see what's so complicated about it.
tyeo098
Member
Where did the OP go?
Hopefully not to Club Kali...
Hopefully not to Club Kali...
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