caliber,bullets,SD & dangerousG...

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Which one would I take? The one I can shoot the best and that I am the most accurate with. For me that would be my Marlin 1895G. I use hand loads that I am confident would be acceptable.

Honestly I think you are over thinking the subject. Take them all to the range, assuming you have them all, and see which one does what you want the best. And go with that. Practice, practice and practice some more. Simply owning a firearm does not make one proficient with it.
 
Which one would I take? The one I can shoot the best and that I am the most accurate with. For me that would be my Marlin 1895G. I use hand loads that I am confident would be acceptable.

Honestly I think you are over thinking the subject. Take them all to the range, assuming you have them all, and see which one does what you want the best. And go with that. Practice, practice and practice some more. Simply owning a firearm does not make one proficient with it.
"Simply owning a firearm does not make one proficient with it."
that is a given...I can assure you I fully understand & practice that.
It is beyond that obvious "given"...that I was inquiring about, in case anyone owned & used these 4 guns that are new to me, for the intended purpose I stated.
That's all.
 
16n69, given those choices, the lever action .45/70 would have to be my ONLY choice in those. You have been told but you cant seem to get it through your head that semi-auto's just don't have the total reliability that is needed up there. My own personal first choice in my .500 S&W loaded up with 500gr Interlock flatpoints. But I have been shown that most are not as adept with handguns as I and need the length of either a shotgun or short carbine at least for more accurate aiming under pressure. Hence why I would and do recommend a good PUMP action 12 gauge loaded up with some hard hitting, high meplat slugs.
 
Which Gun/Cal./cartridge-bullet would you want with you for defense(not hunting) against Grizzly & Coastal Brown Bear...and why?
Agree: Marlin .45-70. Not sure I even need the 540s--500 or 430 probably fine.

2nd choice: another Marlin for my friend. Because I personally don't see an advantage of a semi-auto here. Also, I have lots of experience putting .45-70s downrange through a Marlin, and familiarity is a huge source of bias. However, I also have put a lot of slugs through a Benelli M1 and M2; I love them, but I'll still take the Marlin.

No: I have no experience hunting brown bear.
 
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16n69, given those choices, the lever action .45/70 would have to be my ONLY choice in those. You have been told but you cant seem to get it through your head that semi-auto's just don't have the total reliability that is needed up there. My own personal first choice in my .500 S&W loaded up with 500gr Interlock flatpoints. But I have been shown that most are not as adept with handguns as I and need the length of either a shotgun or short carbine at least for more accurate aiming under pressure. Hence why I would and do recommend a good PUMP action 12 gauge loaded up with some hard hitting, high meplat slugs.
"You have been told but you cant seem to get it through your head that semi-auto's just don't have the total reliability that is needed up there."...
I do not think I care for your "tone"...?
"R U scolding me?
Do you KNOW who Phil Shoemaker is...think he may have forgotten more about guns & bears than you know?
He said that his 1st choice would be the Browning BAR in .338 WM , and 2nd choice the Marlin 1895SBL in .45-70. A "quality" semi-auto has proven to be as "reliable", if not more so than other actions and worthy to bet ones life on...just ask the Military and S.W.A.T. teams.

And a HG...so what if it is a .500 S&W...(I own one in 4")...a handgun vs. a SG or rifle is dismal defense...and you are worried about "semi-auto" rifle / SG "reliability"??? LoL!
 
Not only have I heard of Phil, I have HUNTED with Phil several times as well as had him drop camp me several times over the years. You only know reputation and what you have read. I sir have BEEN there, DONE that. Did you know that Phil has only ever dropped ONE Brown bear in defense? Do you know that he is on the Bear Spray poll? Did you also know that he carries a 12 gauge Mossburg 500 loaded with Bren Slugs as well as a Can of Bear Spray? What is said on web pages and what he actually DOES is sometimes 2 completely different things. As I said earlier, for HUNTING, a semi would be an acceptable platform in most cases because if it fails, your life wouldn't be in danger. And dude, Just what in the hell does S.W.A.T. have to do in Alaska defense of Brown Bears? You seriously need to come to grips with reality. As far as Military, have a look at what they use in extreme cold conditions as well as extreme wet. It aint semi. The awful conditions in Alaska are very detrimental to semi auto actions.

I have had to defend my life against 2 Brown Bears. Both with a .44mag super redhawk. But I also put thousands of rounds downrange yearly and am highly trained to fire under extreme pressure. Most are not which is why I don't recommend hand guns for Bear defense. If it is a true DEFENSE against a Brown Bear, then you are going to be firing at less than 30 yards at a target that is the size of a tennis ball bouncing up and down and coming at you at around 30 to 35 mph. Now which in this case would you want, a large meplat that will input extreme force and, because of that near triple the frontal size, help if you miss the mark by a couple of inches or a rifle that you will HAVE to be dead on the money with.
 
45/70 lever action....hands down.

I would not use a bullet as heavy as a 500+ grain though.

Something in the 400-450 gr range is plenty.

Second choice (or for a partner) would be the same rifle (45/70).

Commonality of rifle platform and ammo...could be an advantage.
 
Not only have I heard of Phil, I have HUNTED with Phil several times as well as had him drop camp me several times over the years. You only know reputation and what you have read. I sir have BEEN there, DONE that. Did you know that Phil has only ever dropped ONE Brown bear in defense? Do you know that he is on the Bear Spray poll? Did you also know that he carries a 12 gauge Mossburg 500 loaded with Bren Slugs as well as a Can of Bear Spray? What is said on web pages and what he actually DOES is sometimes 2 completely different things. As I said earlier, for HUNTING, a semi would be an acceptable platform in most cases because if it fails, your life wouldn't be in danger. And dude, Just what in the hell does S.W.A.T. have to do in Alaska defense of Brown Bears? You seriously need to come to grips with reality. As far as Military, have a look at what they use in extreme cold conditions as well as extreme wet. It aint semi. The awful conditions in Alaska are very detrimental to semi auto actions.

I have had to defend my life against 2 Brown Bears. Both with a .44mag super redhawk. But I also put thousands of rounds downrange yearly and am highly trained to fire under extreme pressure. Most are not which is why I don't recommend hand guns for Bear defense. If it is a true DEFENSE against a Brown Bear, then you are going to be firing at less than 30 yards at a target that is the size of a tennis ball bouncing up and down and coming at you at around 30 to 35 mph. Now which in this case would you want, a large meplat that will input extreme force and, because of that near triple the frontal size, help if you miss the mark by a couple of inches or a rifle that you will HAVE to be dead on the money with.
It is NOT what "I read on the internet...", I communicated directly with Phil via P.M., and he said out of the 4 systems I listed , he would prefer the BAR .338 WM.
He also said that he carries a .458 WM bolt rifle, not a pump SG.
And "And dude, Just what in the hell does S.W.A.T. have to do in Alaska defense of Brown Bears?"...I was just making the point...that in life threatening situations & offensive "defense" semi-autos are used.
 
45/70 lever action....hands down.

I would not use a bullet as heavy as a 500+ grain though.

Something in the 400-450 gr range is plenty.

Second choice (or for a partner) would be the same rifle (45/70).

Commonality of rifle platform and ammo...could be an advantage.
Garrett recommends the 540 Hammerhead for bear...?

"FIRST CHOICE for defense against heavy grizzly"

"Our 540-gr +P Hammerhead Ammo is the ideal choice for stopping heavy bears at close quarters or hunting them at short range. This Hammerhead bullet has a meplat (frontal flat) diameter of .360”, which is just one tenth of an inch less than bore diameter. With its tremendous weight to diameter ratio (sectional density) it provides end to end penetration on the heaviest of bears, with exit, and does tremendous damage per unit of penetration due to its extremely blunt front end. This load is carried exclusively by NOAA for protection against coastal grizzly attack. It is also carried by the National Marine Fisheries Service and the U.S. Geological Survey for protection from grizzly attack.

For the specific task of stopping a grizzly charge, this ammo has no peer."


Please read Garrett's 45-70 Commentary for more information."
 
MarlinSBL 45-70 w/Garretts 540gr. SuperHardCast gas-checked Hammerhead
Benelli M4 H2O w/Brenneke Black Magic Slug
Browning BAR .338 w/300gr. Woodleigh Weldcore JSP
Ar15/M4 .458 SOCOM w/405gr. CORBON Self-Defense JSP

Any of them would work.
 
Garrett recommends the 540 Hammerhead for bear...?

"FIRST CHOICE for defense against heavy grizzly"

"Our 540-gr +P Hammerhead Ammo is the ideal choice for stopping heavy bears at close quarters or hunting them at short range. This Hammerhead bullet has a meplat (frontal flat) diameter of .360”, which is just one tenth of an inch less than bore diameter. With its tremendous weight to diameter ratio (sectional density) it provides end to end penetration on the heaviest of bears, with exit, and does tremendous damage per unit of penetration due to its extremely blunt front end. This load is carried exclusively by NOAA for protection against coastal grizzly attack. It is also carried by the National Marine Fisheries Service and the U.S. Geological Survey for protection from grizzly attack.

For the specific task of stopping a grizzly charge, this ammo has no peer."


Please read Garrett's 45-70 Commentary for more information."
Aside from the obvious need for accuracy, while under pressure, bullets with strongly constructed max' penetrators, from a .429 or .458 diameter ammo, with the highest sectional density, at heaviest weight is what I'd trust to get it right the first and only time.

This is off topic, but these chats reminds me of speed vs. penetration kind of mindsets in karate-do. I am not in favor of speed-tag sparring training, for people with years of basics, that want to go beyond superficial learning to something more practical. Matter of fact, I advocate knockdown karate "jissen kumite" (full contact continuous sparring, usually with no or minimal padding) or "fighting" in the fine sport of MMA, where the karate-ka must fend off tough wrestlers that can tackle and dump or throw so hard bones can break. The lessons I've learned from these controlled sporting endeavors is that simplicity, accuracy, and penetration are principles that creates results, aside from having lots of anaerobic endurance: "out of gas, no offense." This, what I have felt, and with the guidance from cops, hunters, and armed citizen that have shared their traumatic experiences guides my thinking on stopping attacks.

For me, unarmed training, (karate, boxing, and jiu-jitsu) must also be accompanied with weapons training (rifle, shotgun, sidearm, knife, cane, "jo"-stick). And at all times, have fun while being practical, and be respectful, even when the others are wrong.
 
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he would prefer the BAR .338 WM.
Cool. And--as you point out--Garrett prefers what Garrett prefers. And I prefer what I prefer.

Before preferring anthing in a BAR, I'd make sure that my gun/ammo functions flawlessly. Then I'd probably borrow a page from Glock: drop it in the snow, or mud, or pond-water, shake it off, and make sure it still functions perfectly.

But everyone will have their own ideas, and a lot of them will be good ones.
 
"drop it in the snow, or mud, or pond-water, shake it off, and make sure it still functions perfectly."

Just wondering...
...other than a Glock, I do not think many if any bolt or lever guns would work "perfectly" or at all, given your "test":eek:
 
"Perfectly" as in gets through a magazine of ammo without a jam. Bolt actions and levers allow you to give a little oomph if there's a wee bit of dirt or whatever on the round or in the chamber, to get the action closed and fire. The H&H belted magnum cases were designed with that scenario specifically in mind.

No change in hand position would be required for levers or bolt-actions, just a bit more force. In contrast, all a BAR has is the recoil (bolt-return) spring to return the bolt, and if it doesn't close completely, you'll get no bang on your next trigger pull, and then you can start fiddling with the operating handle...

Hey, like I said: we're allowed to have different answers. Enjoy!
 
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