Caliber Selection - Bolt Gun

[rduchateau2954]

I guess if you insisted on using one gun for all you mentioned,I would also lean toward the 7 mm Remington,only because you will have plenty of bullet weights to choose from,both light and heavy,but if it was me I would get 2 rifles,say a 22-250 for coyotes,and something 30 caliber for your bigger game,or a 243 for coyotes and whitetail,and a 30 for bigger stuff..It would be cheaper in the long run especially if you bought used rifles because by the time figure out your loads for just one rifle you will have burnt through a lot of powder,and bullets..

True, however I'd only shoot coyotes occasionally, to help out a buddy. I'd only gun hunt whitetails if I get access to private land, I'd only hunt muleys if I guy I know doesn't sell his land in Wyoming etc.

Get what I'm saying? That's why I want a rifle as a range toy that could take that big buck at 200-300 yards, or the elk on the side of a mountain.

It was probably me.

You the guy who shoots deer with a tc pistol? If so, then yes.

 

[horsey300]

7mm-08 would be perfectly suitable, but you have to do some things to make it an acceptable elk caliber. You really want a 1:9" twist rate and bullets in the 160gr+ range. The 160gr accubond is about ideal, but you don't see it loaded for 7mm-08 a lot. I think DoubleTap offers it.

Having recently decided on getting a 7-08 myself, I'm genuinely curious as to why a 150 partition or even ABLR pushed to 2750 2800 fps would be insufficient for a properly placed shot on elk? .243s have taken elk for decades and with either of those bullets, I feel that we're stepping up the firepower considerably. Is the 150 partition sub par for elk at 3-400 yds?? I honestly have not shot one yet but it is in the near future I hope.

 

[rduchateau2954]

Me thinks you need new friends or different viewing material... Elk have been killed long before the 300WM's arrival in the 60's.

Just things like what the guys hunting elk on TV are using, the "top rated elk caliber" ads in gun rags, etc.

You might be thinking of Jack O'Connor with the .270.
Jeff Cooper advocated the .308 for game up to 1000 lbs.
+1 on the 7x57 or 6.5x55
Any of the above are stuff you could practice with a lot, with out inculcating a flinch.
I also have disdain for muzzle brakes.

Yea it didn't sound right when I said it but couldn't think of O'Connor.

Muzzle breaks are definitely out.

 

[WestKentucky]

You the guy who shoots deer with a tc pistol? If so, then yes.

That was me. On that note...if you want some off the wall rounds to have fun with I can point ya at a few. Come to think of it, a encore would fit your needs if you weren't expressly looking at bolt rifles. 2 screws and a push pin later you have swapped from .243 to 30-06...or whatever else random round you can dream up.

 

[rduchateau2954]

A .300 Win Mag is far too much for any of those beasts. So is anything with the word 'magnum' in its name. Like WestKentucky says, they're over kill. The most successful marketing campaign in history is the one that convinced hunters everywhere they need a magnum for any game. There's no game in North America including Griz that need a magnum to kill. And most new hunters(plus a fair number of older hunters) never take the time and effort to learn to shoot one well due to the excessive felt recoil.
"...something like a 270 on elk..." It'll kill any game in North America, including big bears.
Anyway, any standard cartridge from .25 to .30 cal will do nicely with a change of bullet for all those beasts. Just remember you need to be able to find ammo and brass easily. Look in Wally World. If the local one has it, they're all likely to have it.

I'm definitely liking the range between 260/6.5/280ai/30-06/308/7mm.

280ai brass can be bought from nosler. Everything else other than maybe 260 is readily available.

Heck I've even got a good supplier of 303 British brass so it wouldn't be hard to find a few hundred pieces of most calibers.

 

[bang_bang]

7 Mag, 7mm-08, 308, 30-06, etc. I think you have a good idea of the caliber, next I would look at what you want out of the rifle. Weight, barrel length, stock options and price come into play now. If you're more mobile while hunting, hunt in thicker areas, or have a good hike to the stand a non-magnum might be the way to go.

 

[rduchateau2954]

That was me. On that note...if you want some off the wall rounds to have fun with I can point ya at a few. Come to think of it, a encore would fit your needs if you weren't expressly looking at bolt rifles. 2 screws and a push pin later you have swapped from .243 to 30-06...or whatever else random round you can dream up.

I've thought about them as well but I've heard so many conflicting opinions on the quality, accuracy, and new barrel fitment of single shot rifles. This rifle isn't made anymore, or these barrels have to be fitted, or they're only good if made before 20xx.

A 223 sized pistol for coyotes, a tack driver 243 for farm deer, etc. It just seems like it was the original thought but nobody ever quite got there.

 

[rduchateau2954]

7 Mag, 7mm-08, 308, 30-06, etc. I think you have a good idea of the caliber, next I would look at what you want out of the rifle. Weight, barrel length, stock options and price come into play now. If you're more mobile while hunting, hunt in thicker areas, or have a good hike to the stand a non-magnum might be the way to go.

That's the thing, I don't currently rifle hunt anything anywhere. I might however, hunt whitetails in a swamp if I go with family, whitetails and coyotes at friends farms, muleys in eastern Wyoming, etc.

That's why I'm looking for a rifle I can go ring steel plates at 500 yards. Then if so and so says "hey I've got a spot for you to hunt over soybeans" or "wanna come shoot some yotes?" or "we're crawling in bears up here" I can grab my rifle and go.

For example; for years a buddies uncle asked if I wanted to hunt his farm. For the first two years I laughed it off. Then I said why not, bought a rifle only for him to have a bunch of family craziness happen that caused him to ban everyone from his place and change his number.

 

[morcey2]

If the odds of shooting an elk are pretty low, I'd go with something in the 257 Roberts,260 Rem, 6.5 CM, 6.5x55, 7mm-08, or 7x57 range. Any can ring steel out to 500 yards and all are more than sufficient for anything up to and including Muleys/Black Bear. Even a 243 would be sufficient for it if using the right bullet. I've got a 257 Rob and a couple of 7x57s and will probably have a 6.5x55 built shortly. 7mm-08 is the ballistic equivalent to the 7x57 and both are capable of taking elk, again, with the right bullet and placement. 257 Bob is a little of an oddball and pretty much requires handloading but I really like mine.

In the longer cases, 25-06, 6.5-06, 6.5-284, 270 win, 284 win, 280 Rem (either standard or AI), or 30-06 would all work. Both the 6.5mm and 7mm have great selections of high-BC/high-SD bullets. 257, not so much, but good enough for me.

 

[Llama Bob]

Having recently decided on getting a 7-08 myself, I'm genuinely curious as to why a 150 partition or even ABLR pushed to 2750 2800 fps would be insufficient for a properly placed shot on elk? .243s have taken elk for decades and with either of those bullets, I feel that we're stepping up the firepower considerably. Is the 150 partition sub par for elk at 3-400 yds?? I honestly have not shot one yet but it is in the near future I hope.

Partitions shed a lot of weight. 150gr in 7mm is already a bit low in terms of sectional density for elk - most good elk loads have a SD of .27 or higher. 150gr 7mm has a SD of .266. I would use it, but I wouldn't choose it given alternatives of which there are many. The 160gr 7mm partition is a lot better choice, and the 175gr partition even better - that's what I use in my 7mm mag.

 

[Llama Bob]

I'm definitely liking the range between 260/6.5/280ai/30-06/308/7mm.

I think that's the right place to be. Only thing I'd be a little careful of is that a lot of .260s have short mag boxes or short throats or slow twist rates that don't work well with the heavy bullets that are so nice in 6.5CM and 6.5x55. .260 was really designed for lighter bullets than people now prefer, especially for elk.

 

[LoonWulf]

So rebarreling is gun+barrel blank+gunsmith? Or gun+280ai barrel+gunsmith?

Rechambering is 280 rifle + gunsmith?

Which is the better route? It would seem easier to pick up something like a savage with a threaded on barrel would be easier.

Yep savage with an add on barrel would be easier. If you want a different action, then simply having a smith run an AI reamer into a .280 would be the next easiest.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

06 all the way

 

[tarosean]

Just things like what the guys hunting elk on TV are using, the "top rated elk caliber" ads in gun rags, etc.

Of course, they are trying to sell you something...

I grew up in Northern NM and Southern CO hunting elk all my life.. Never used, much less owned, a 300WM. .308/30.06/7mmRM have all put meat in the freezer though..

 

[Robert]

Me, I carry a 375H&H. It will do everything 300wm will do and more. The recoil is not nearly as sharp and the meat damage is less as well. I can load down to 06 levels for plinking or load 300gr solids for elephant. My 270gr hunting loads are easy to shoot all day long.

 

[Tony k]

My hunting rifle options are 270win, 7mm REM mag, and 325wsm. The 270 has been my "go to" choice for the past 15 years. I intended to use the 7mm for longer distance/open country elk hunting, and I intended to set up the 325 for black bear.

The 7mm and the 325 are more expensive to shoot, so I end up putting in much more range time with the 270. As a result, I have a much more intimate familiarity with how it behaves at ranges out to 1000 yards. So when hunting season rolls around I find myself sticking with the 270 for everything. Not because it's better than the other two (or any of the other calibers in this thread), but because it's been more affordable to practice with the 270, which has made me confident in the rifle.

Ive shot elk out to 250 yards, pronghorn out to 400 yards, bears at less than 100 yards with the 270 and never felt under gunned.

I'd recommended the OP skip the magnum and boutique calibers, and stick with the more common offerings.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

As the late, great Townsend Whelen said, "The .30-06 is never a mistake."

I would get a Model 70 Winchester in that caliber.

 

[Rodman579]

I have 2 rifles in 30-06 that have served me well. since moving to Alaska I have bought a 300WSM and a 338WM. I have been shooting them a lot and I like both calibers. the 300WSM has a muzzle brake and it kicks like a 243, its a Winchester control feed rifle. I have reloaded rounds for it from 130gr-200gr and they all shoot extremely well, plus the magazine box is larger so you can seat bullets out further or easily use the heavier bullets. my 338WM is a Ruger tang-safety and has had the magna-porting done, it doesn't kick too bad with that and a Brown precision stock. the accuracy isn't as good as the 300 but its still MOA. from hunting with some guys up here on large game I would much prefer a heavier caliber rifle not only cause of the game but because having that little bit of extra insurance as taking shots at much more awkward positions then tree stand hunting I have done in the lower 48. but that's just my opinion. as far as muzzle brakes go i have had some that were absolutely brutal and others that weren't bad at all. I work in a taxidermy shop and get to see all sorts of would channels, entrance & exit wounds. up here seems that 300wm and 338wm are the most popular. the Barnes bullets are impressive as well so they might let you get away with a lighter caliber.

 

[PabloJ]

Whitetail hunted years ago, family stuff ended that. Sold my rifle. Got another opportunity 7 years later. Bought another rifle, opportunity fell through, sold gun in disgust.

Few years go by and I've had a few maybes come along and it's got me thinking why not get another rifle as an almost fun gun that I could hunt with. The problem I have is I get in my own head and can find fault in anything. That and when I think "fun" I think something impractical like a 45/70 lever gun or 35 whelen.

I do reload.

Here's what will happen:
Imma shoot the snot outta it.

Here's what may happen:
Whitetail
Black bear
Coyote
Wyoming Mule Deer

Here's what could happen.
I buy a camper and chase elk.

I'm not recoil sensitive, but I want something I can shoot all day. That originally ruled out anything bigger than a 300 win mag, but I've never shot a muzzle break rifle.

I don't want to say anymore to influence you, so if you were me, what would you get?

I would buy something in caliber that is practical for which ammo is readily available and inexpensive. My top pick would be .308Win (7,62x51mm). Remember in no so distant future we may no longer be able to purchase reloading supplies or ammo through mail delivered to your door. We will only be able to buy ammo locally so be sure to think seriously before making your next purchase.

 

[PabloJ]

And I get that, but if we all just shot factory built '06's and factory ammo we wouldn't need to come to this forum and talk to each other like teenage girls with a new crush.

Very simple. Go to local Walmart and pick from one of the useful calibers they sell ammo for. By useful I mean something like .308Winchester.

 

[denton]

Being able to get ammunition at the local gas station is a point to consider. You can't beat the 30-06 in that department.

If that's not an issue, it is hard to beat the 7x57 as an all-around chambering. In a modern action, it's easy to get a 160/162 grain bullet to 2750 FPS safely. It's hard for me to think what a 30-06 will do that a load like that cannot, at least as far as the game animal can tell. It's easy to load down, such as a 139 grain bullet at 2800 FPS for smaller shooters. So it's something you can enjoy for an afternoon at the range, and it's something that is adequate for any game in North America, plus it can give you a respectably long, flat trajectory.

It's the same diameter bullet as the 280, which is about the third least popular chambering in the US. And it doesn't require premium bullets, which are the norm for the 7mm Mag (on close-in shots, bullet speed is sufficient that cup and core bullets frequently fail.)

 

[Jason_W]

I'll point out that a 45/70 doesn't have to be miserable to shoot, especially if you hand load.

A 405 grain bullet lobbed at 1300 or so f/s really isn't that bad, and if you load a 300 grain bullet down in the 1000 to 1300 f/s range, you have a plinker of sorts (if you save money by casting your own).

The 45/70 will never win any speed or flat trajectory contests, but it's a more than adequate round for those willing to spend the time to learn how to hunt and shoot with it. It's not a good "weekend warrior" round.

Why would anyone want to hunt with something as plodding and obsolete as the 45/70 when a plethora of speedy/pointy options exist? I guess for the same reason some of us would still rather listen to music on vinyl records than on mp3.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

By "shoot the snot out of", do you mean long range target shooting? General plinking? I love my Ruger Precision in 6.5Creedmoor. Not exactly a perfect hunting rig, but I would have taken it out this season had my schedule allowed.

Look into what bullets you want to shoot, how much they cost and how available they are for reloading. Good 6.5mm and 30cal bullets are on the shelves in lots of stores. High-BC 7mm projectiles for long range work? They exist, but they aren't nearly as abundant as the 6.5 or 30cal options, at least in my experience.

From what you've listed as possible uses, I would go with a 6.5cm or 308win. Shooting a magnum a lot will burn out barrels quickly, but I suppose if you have a Savage-style action, you can rebarrel it yourself for minimal cost. The 308win wins on ammo availability - but if you want peak performance, you'll be loading 175gr+ bullets at home anyways. 6.5 Creedmoor wins in the long-range-for-fun category above all other options, especially where cost is considered.

As far as muzzle brakes are concerned, it seems like some folks are confused. There are compensators, which vent gas from holes in all directions. They are common on hunting rifles, and very loud for the shooter and people nearby. A muzzle brake (according to my understanding) vents gas only to the sides, not upward or downward. This sucks for people next to you, but as the shooter they really help. I have never felt a need to double-up on earpro with a traditional brake, but I definitely won't shoot one without earpro. Bonus to a muzzle brake? You can spot your own shots if your designated spotter isn't paying attention (or isn't out on the range with you).

Anyway, I hope that was mostly helpful. I just switched from 308win to the 6.5cm so I'm probably biased and YMMV.

ETA: Actually, it seems that compensators vent gas only upward. Muzzle brakes can vent gas in any direction. Woohoo for Google.

 

[rduchateau2954]

By "shoot the snot out of", do you mean long range target shooting? General plinking? I love my Ruger Precision in 6.5Creedmoor. Not exactly a perfect hunting rig, but I would have taken it out this season had my schedule allowed.

Look into what bullets you want to shoot, how much they cost and how available they are for reloading. Good 6.5mm and 30cal bullets are on the shelves in lots of stores. High-BC 7mm projectiles for long range work? They exist, but they aren't nearly as abundant as the 6.5 or 30cal options, at least in my experience.

From what you've listed as possible uses, I would go with a 6.5cm or 308win. Shooting a magnum a lot will burn out barrels quickly, but I suppose if you have a Savage-style action, you can rebarrel it yourself for minimal cost. The 308win wins on ammo availability - but if you want peak performance, you'll be loading 175gr+ bullets at home anyways. 6.5 Creedmoor wins in the long-range-for-fun category above all other options, especially where cost is considered.

As far as muzzle brakes are concerned, it seems like some folks are confused. There are compensators, which vent gas from holes in all directions. They are common on hunting rifles, and very loud for the shooter and people nearby. A muzzle brake (according to my understanding) vents gas only to the sides, not upward or downward. This sucks for people next to you, but as the shooter they really help. I have never felt a need to double-up on earpro with a traditional brake, but I definitely won't shoot one without earpro. Bonus to a muzzle brake? You can spot your own shots if your designated spotter isn't paying attention (or isn't out on the range with you).

Anyway, I hope that was mostly helpful. I just switched from 308win to the 6.5cm so I'm probably biased and YMMV.

ETA: Actually, it seems that compensators vent gas only upward. Muzzle brakes can vent gas in any direction. Woohoo for Google.

By shoot the snot out of it I mean that my shoulder isn't what limits my shooting.

I've been looking at 270wsm and 280ai. I really like the 280 but it seems like my options are either pay way too much or build one from a Savage.

 

[Coal Dragger]

I have a Cooper M52 in .280AI, and after sending it in to get a buggered up crown corrected it shoots like a house on fire. Great cartridge, but not one I'd pick to shoot all day or plink with.

If I were to pick a cartridge that was easy on the shooter, had plenty of reach, lots of accuracy potential, good efficiency, and good results on game it would be the 6.5mm Creedmoor. I have a couple of friends who have dumped elk with theirs no problem, the cartridge is easy to reload for, doesn't burn through powder too fast, doesn't abuse the shooter, and it shoots well.

The notion thst you need Thor's hammer to kill an elk is just that, a notion....not reality. You just need good shot placement and a well made bullet, like any other animal.