Caliber Selection - Bolt Gun
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rduchateau2954
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I'm also seeing that a 270 or '06 can be rechambered in 280ai.
Can you educate me on the process. (yes I realize the difference probably isn't worth it)
The .270 or 06 can be rebarreled to .280, not rechambered. Diffrent bore sizes and all....
Re chambering a .280 is as simple as cutting the existing chamber to AI spec with the correct reamer. Its not a hard job, but since the the stock .280 and .280 AI use the same headspace gauges, i think its best to have a gunsmith do the work.
And the difference is tottaly worth it....its DIFFRENT! Yeah, im one of those guys....
Re chambering a .280 is as simple as cutting the existing chamber to AI spec with the correct reamer. Its not a hard job, but since the the stock .280 and .280 AI use the same headspace gauges, i think its best to have a gunsmith do the work.
And the difference is tottaly worth it....its DIFFRENT! Yeah, im one of those guys....
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WestKentucky
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It was probably me.
JackSprat
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I guess if you insisted on using one gun for all you mentioned,I would also lean toward the 7 mm Remington,only because you will have plenty of bullet weights to choose from,both light and heavy,but if it was me I would get 2 rifles,say a 22-250 for coyotes,and something 30 caliber for your bigger game,or a 243 for coyotes and whitetail,and a 30 for bigger stuff..It would be cheaper in the long run especially if you bought used rifles because by the time figure out your loads for just one rifle you will have burnt through a lot of powder,and bullets..
jmorris
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If you can afford what ever "a pile" of brass is and reload there should be no reason you couldn't. You can load it to what ever level of performance you want. Might even be able to get subsonic with trailboss and cast bullets, for "all day" plinkers.
MtnCreek
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30-06. 4895 loads with a ~150gr bullet are soft shooting. You could even load them down to child-soft. On the upper end it can be loaded to near win mag performance.
Gtscotty
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I agree with LoonWulf on muzzle brakes, I have to have double ears to use one, which is why I won't own a braked hunting rifle. My Tikka CTR is braked for range and match use, but if it ever went hunting, I'd thread on a can or take the brake off, it's just too loud. As for .270 on elk, the two rifles I have been taking out to fill my cow tags this year are a .30-06 with 180gr SGK's and a .270 with 140gr Accubonds. No luck yet, but I'll try and report performance when I drop the hammer on one.
If you like weird, the young nosler calibers might be what you're looking for, 26 nosler, 28 nosler, 30nosler, and the new 33 nosler, but from rifle to ammo they will make your factory manufactured 280 AI seem more affordable, still, the 28 might be just what you're looking for...
Kingcreek
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If you're gonna shoot it a lot, you should become proficient enough to take elk and all other game mentioned with a 270 and the recoil isn't abusive. and its an easy caliber to reload. if mulies weren't on your list I would say .308 or 30-06.
Llama Bob
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Muzzle brakes aren't all they're cracked up to be, especially for hunting. They're LOUD, doubly so on big magnums. I suppose it's personal choice, but for hunting where I may end up taking a shot without ear protection, there's NO way I use a brake. If you do use one, I strongly recommend carrying ear protection and putting it in, even if it means you lose the shot. Personally I'll stick with rifles that don't have excessive recoil, and just make the rifle heavier as needed or use a bigger recoil pad. My stopping gun is a .45-90 shooting 425gr monolithic solids at about 2070 ft/s. That's in the same ballpark as a .404 jeffrey or .450/400 nitro express - the classic elephant guns before Africa rolled out those new armored elephants you need a .458 Lott for 
With a 9 pound gun and a 1 1/2 in limbsaver nitro pad, the .45-90 is not painful and doesn't bruise my shoulder. You can tame any reasonable hunting gun with a recoil pad. If a limbsaver nitro isn't enough, I'd add mercury cylinders to the stock before I'd add a brake. It's only $50 per cylinder, each one adds a little less than a pound to the gun, and the liquid mercury helps flatten out the recoil more than just adding lead weights. If one isn't enough (unlikely if you've got the recoil pad), add another.
What elk benefit from is not a super-fast projectile, but rather a heavy for caliber/high sectional density projectile that won't come apart. You just need enough case behind it to drive it at an acceptable velocity. A 6.5mm Woodleigh 160 grain protected point at 2650 ft/s (easily doable with 6.5x55, 6.5 Creedmoor etc.) is more than enough to give you a clean kill and pass through (for blood trail if you get unlucky and have to track) anywhere inside 400 yards. But a .300 WM shooting 150gr. CoreLokts the bullet will probably com apart and is very unlikely to give you an exit wound. It could even be deflected from the vitals fairly easily. There's nothing wrong with magnums for elk if you choose the right bullet, but there's really not much right about them either - they don't bring anything to the table other than a longer point blank range zero.
With a 9 pound gun and a 1 1/2 in limbsaver nitro pad, the .45-90 is not painful and doesn't bruise my shoulder. You can tame any reasonable hunting gun with a recoil pad. If a limbsaver nitro isn't enough, I'd add mercury cylinders to the stock before I'd add a brake. It's only $50 per cylinder, each one adds a little less than a pound to the gun, and the liquid mercury helps flatten out the recoil more than just adding lead weights. If one isn't enough (unlikely if you've got the recoil pad), add another.What elk benefit from is not a super-fast projectile, but rather a heavy for caliber/high sectional density projectile that won't come apart. You just need enough case behind it to drive it at an acceptable velocity. A 6.5mm Woodleigh 160 grain protected point at 2650 ft/s (easily doable with 6.5x55, 6.5 Creedmoor etc.) is more than enough to give you a clean kill and pass through (for blood trail if you get unlucky and have to track) anywhere inside 400 yards. But a .300 WM shooting 150gr. CoreLokts the bullet will probably com apart and is very unlikely to give you an exit wound. It could even be deflected from the vitals fairly easily. There's nothing wrong with magnums for elk if you choose the right bullet, but there's really not much right about them either - they don't bring anything to the table other than a longer point blank range zero.
You might be thinking of Jack O'Connor with the .270.
Jeff Cooper advocated the .308 for game up to 1000 lbs.
+1 on the 7x57 or 6.5x55
Any of the above are stuff you could practice with a lot, with out inculcating a flinch.
I also have disdain for muzzle brakes.
Gtscotty
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?
Not sure I follow, .308 is about perfect, and .30-06 might be a bit heavy for most deer, but a little overkill won't hurt anything.
Not sure what you mean by weird. One mans oddity is another mans' normal If you're only going to own one rifle I'd look long and hard at an 06 or a 308. IMHO they're a bit on the boring side, but since you reload you have a large choice of bullets and loads to chose from. Likely more than most other calibers.
25 years ago I was looking to my first "big game" rifle. Being in MI of course everyone suggested a 30-30, but I was headed to WY where that did not have the range I was looking for. Being early twenties and poor my logic was one "do it all" rifle. I looked long and hard at a .270 but landed with an '06. At the time I thought a .270 was weird. I've been very happy with my choice and will be carrying the rifle on a hunt in a couple weeks.
Of all the calibers mentioned the 7-08 would be of interest to me. Having experience with a .243 I think the 7-08 is a really nice cartridge. Is it enough for bear or elk ? I sure wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one, and I doubt the bear or elk can tell the difference. Likely th 7-08 will be my next caliber.
-Jeff
If you're only going to own one rifle I'd look long and hard at an 06 or a 308. IMHO they're a bit on the boring side, but since you reload you have a large choice of bullets and loads to chose from. Likely more than most other calibers. 25 years ago I was looking to my first "big game" rifle. Being in MI of course everyone suggested a 30-30, but I was headed to WY where that did not have the range I was looking for. Being early twenties and poor my logic was one "do it all" rifle. I looked long and hard at a .270 but landed with an '06. At the time I thought a .270 was weird. I've been very happy with my choice and will be carrying the rifle on a hunt in a couple weeks.
Of all the calibers mentioned the 7-08 would be of interest to me. Having experience with a .243 I think the 7-08 is a really nice cartridge. Is it enough for bear or elk ? I sure wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one, and I doubt the bear or elk can tell the difference. Likely th 7-08 will be my next caliber.
-Jeff
horsemen61
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6.5-06
Llama Bob
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7mm-08 would be perfectly suitable, but you have to do some things to make it an acceptable elk caliber. You really want a 1:9" twist rate and bullets in the 160gr+ range. The 160gr accubond is about ideal, but you don't see it loaded for 7mm-08 a lot. I think DoubleTap offers it.
Sunray
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A .300 Win Mag is far too much for any of those beasts. So is anything with the word 'magnum' in its name. Like WestKentucky says, they're over kill. The most successful marketing campaign in history is the one that convinced hunters everywhere they need a magnum for any game. There's no game in North America including Griz that need a magnum to kill. And most new hunters(plus a fair number of older hunters) never take the time and effort to learn to shoot one well due to the excessive felt recoil.
"...something like a 270 on elk..." It'll kill any game in North America, including big bears.
Anyway, any standard cartridge from .25 to .30 cal will do nicely with a change of bullet for all those beasts. Just remember you need to be able to find ammo and brass easily. Look in Wally World. If the local one has it, they're all likely to have it.
"...something like a 270 on elk..." It'll kill any game in North America, including big bears.
Anyway, any standard cartridge from .25 to .30 cal will do nicely with a change of bullet for all those beasts. Just remember you need to be able to find ammo and brass easily. Look in Wally World. If the local one has it, they're all likely to have it.
Sounds like you need two rifles. One to shoot the snot out of and one to possibly hunt mule deer and elk with.
308 has a good long accurate barrel life.
280 or 284 would be good deer and elk calibers. Without getting into a magnum. Heck the 308 with the right bullets will work also.
308 has a good long accurate barrel life.
280 or 284 would be good deer and elk calibers. Without getting into a magnum. Heck the 308 with the right bullets will work also.
Nature Boy
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I've developed an itch for a .260 Rem that's going to get scratched sooner rather than later
If you reload, a 260 is really nice. Factory ammo doesn't really do it justice.
adcoch1
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Two rifles may be your answer as listed above, or an easy to download cartridge. How much is a pile of ammo? After a self imposed torture session of 200 30-06 and 250 44 mag rounds I was done. But an ar-15 can easily burn through 500 or more in a day. I would vote for a 7mm-08 or 6.5cm to shoot a lot of, and probably a 7mm mag for elk in the future. Or just download the 7 mag most of the time. I love 30-06 but the 7 mag kicks about the same in comparable rifles, and gives you more range for the same energy transfer. BUT, if a 30-06 will help justify the future garand purchase, By ALL MEANS go that route...
Mr. Hill
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For something fun and different, a .257 weatherby magnum?
Me thinks you need new friends or different viewing material... Elk have been killed long before the 300WM's arrival in the 60's.
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rduchateau2954
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So rebarreling is gun+barrel blank+gunsmith? Or gun+280ai barrel+gunsmith?
Rechambering is 280 rifle + gunsmith?
Which is the better route? It would seem easier to pick up something like a savage with a threaded on barrel would be easier.
45-70, 35Whelen, and 25-06 are the 3 most over rated cartridges out there. A 30-30 is more potent than traditional 45-70 loads. The hotter loads are about equal to 30-06 in performance, but with recoil exceeding 458 WM. A 30-06 with heavier 200-220 gr bullets out performs 35 Whelen on large game and shoots much flatter with lighter 150-180 gr bullets with much less recoil. The 338 WM or 338-06 offer no advantage over heavy loaded 30-06. Well the 338 WM might do the same thing at a bit longer range. The better 243 loads beat 25-06.
If you want to be practical a 308 or 7-08 will kill everything in the lower 48 with the least drama. You could move up to 30-06 or 270 for a bit more effective range. If you aren't recoil shy there is nothing wrong with any of the various 300 or 7mm mags; they do the same as 30-06 and 270 about 50-100 yards farther down range.
If you just want to be a bit different and still be able to find factory loads I'd be looking at 280 or 300 WSM. On paper at least 280 is a smidge better than 30-06 or 270, but not enough for most people to buy one if they have either a 30-06 or 270. If game larger than deer is never going to happen, or rarely then I'd look hard at 6.5 Creedmoor or 260. With the better bullets it is still an elk round. But if elk were regularly hunted I'd prefer 270 or 7-08 as a minimum.
I really like the 300 WSM. It shoots the same bullets as 300 WM about 50-75 fps slower, about 150-200 fps faster than 30-06. But it uses about 12-15 gr less powder than 300 WM. The slight difference in speed combined with much less powder results in recoil almost exactly 1/2 way between 30-06 and 300 WM.
If you want to be practical a 308 or 7-08 will kill everything in the lower 48 with the least drama. You could move up to 30-06 or 270 for a bit more effective range. If you aren't recoil shy there is nothing wrong with any of the various 300 or 7mm mags; they do the same as 30-06 and 270 about 50-100 yards farther down range.
If you just want to be a bit different and still be able to find factory loads I'd be looking at 280 or 300 WSM. On paper at least 280 is a smidge better than 30-06 or 270, but not enough for most people to buy one if they have either a 30-06 or 270. If game larger than deer is never going to happen, or rarely then I'd look hard at 6.5 Creedmoor or 260. With the better bullets it is still an elk round. But if elk were regularly hunted I'd prefer 270 or 7-08 as a minimum.
I really like the 300 WSM. It shoots the same bullets as 300 WM about 50-75 fps slower, about 150-200 fps faster than 30-06. But it uses about 12-15 gr less powder than 300 WM. The slight difference in speed combined with much less powder results in recoil almost exactly 1/2 way between 30-06 and 300 WM.
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